caps' maps - 2023-02-25 updates:Cage Match Redux and Seagate

[caps]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, D_S.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Reset:

The first thing I notice about this map is the very long sight lines. It's interesting to see in the narrative you took advice from Killometer about this map, because it is a feature a number of his maps have.

I like playing melee so I'm always looking at maps wondering if there is a reasonable way for melee on Side A to approach parked range on Side B and on this map I don't see it.

I love playing Melee too. I enjoy range when I do it, but I'm always drawn to melee builds. And the M-43 Resistance fighters, for some reason. See the updates below and let me know if you think its an improvement.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Helplessness Blues:

I was once told by one of the good cartographers on the site that every hex should be potentially useful. It made sense to me, and as I look at this map I see a lot of space that would not likely have any traffic on it, ever.

I think moving the side glyphs all the way out to the ends, or near the ends, of the points on the side might help, though I'm also eyeing the stray water hexes on low ground near the start zones. The ones on the outside edge of the map. What are they there for?

I took your advice. I'm not sure its quite perfect yet, but I think its an improvement.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Pocket Full of Posies:

*This* is my kind of map. This looks like a mad_wookiee creation and I love it. Lots of LOS blockers but still space for range to do its thing, varied terrain and interesting choices everywhere.

I'm a big fan of Pocket Full of Posies.

I'm glad you like it. I think it will do well in the contest and I look forward to playing it when I get the chance. I wish I had time to play it and tweak it before submitting it, but I know that's not going to happen (I'm restricted to 1xRotV in the maps I can actually, physically build at my house).

I'll post the updated versions in a new post.

[Dad_Scaper]

Capsocrates, as with most things, I'm not sure why someone would take my advice. You get what you pay for, when it comes to my advice about maps.

I like the idea of Mulberry Bush but the problem with that type of map is, again, the long sight lines. It looks very range friendly because the melee have to walk all the way around the hole to get anywhere.

I like the idea of messing with voids in maps and I'm sure there are some around here that do it well but that's the trap you have to avoid.

Anyway. I hope this helped. Keep up the good work.

[caps]

Reset

Spoiler Alert!

I messed with the sight lines some. The map should be a little kinder to melee armies now.

Helplessness Blues

Spoiler Alert!

I moved the glyph way into the back and adjusted the tiles there..

Mulberry Bush

Spoiler Alert!

I renovated this one quite a bit.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I like the idea of Mulberry Bush but the problem with that type of map is, again, the long sight lines. It looks very range friendly because the melee have to walk all the way around the hole to get anywhere.

I like the idea of messing with voids in maps and I'm sure there are some around here that do it well but that's the trap you have to avoid.

Do people normally play where figures can see across voids? I generally treat voids as impassable zones that are impossible to see through. If that's not the norm I would make that a special rule for this map, for sure.

Thanks again for your input! I'd love to hear your thoughts on my updates--particularly I'd like to know if Reset looks more melee-friendly.

[infectedsloth]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Reset

Spoiler Alert!

I messed with the sight lines some. The map should be a little kinder to melee armies now.

Helplessness Blues

Spoiler Alert!

I moved the glyph way into the back and adjusted the tiles there..

Mulberry Bush

Spoiler Alert!

I renovated this one quite a bit.

All the maps look a lot better, nice job. As for Pocket full of posies I would ask Rÿchean about the added columns rule to see if it is legal, even if it's not allowed it's still a great map.

[Killometer]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys! Its in the .pdf, but I didn't put it in the OP until just now: there's a special rule for Pocket Full of Posies that no figure can pass through or over the columns by any means. Should I have any exceptions to that? Or just specify that it only affects fliers and stealth fliers?

Special rules like that are great for a scenario or casual play, probably less great in an open tournament setting. As a TD I'd be reluctant to include a map balanced with that kind of extra requirements.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Do people normally play where figures can see across voids? I generally treat voids as impassable zones that are impossible to see through. If that's not the norm I would make that a special rule for this map, for sure.

Officially figures can see across voids, but they must count range around voids:



Again, probably not best to base a map's balance off custom rules.

Originally Posted by infectedsloth

All the maps look a lot better, nice job. As for Pocket full of posies I would ask Rÿchean about the added columns rule to see if it is legal, even if it's not allowed it's still a great map.

It's legal-check the contest op.

Regarding your maps, at a quick glance Reset looks the most tournament ready, though the way the ruins guard the glyhs might change that depending on what's drawn. The new glyph postions on Helplessness Blues will help draw action all the way to the corners, but taking 3-4 turns to get to them requires quite a commitment.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Killometer

Special rules like that are great for a scenario or casual play, probably less great in an open tournament setting. As a TD I'd be reluctant to include a map balanced with that kind of extra requirements.

I'll ask Rÿchean what he thinks about it. I'm not sure it would be a good tournament map without that requirement. What do you think?

Originally Posted by Killometer

Officially figures can see across voids, but they must count range around voids:



Again, probably not best to base a map's balance off custom rules.

Wow. Even knowing that Heroscape is not a simulation that doesn't make sense to me. The solution (that I can't use in this contest) would be to put wall columns all the way around the inside edge of the map.

Originally Posted by Killometer

Regarding your maps, at a quick glance Reset looks the most tournament ready, though the way the ruins guard the glyhs might change that depending on what's drawn. The new glyph postions on Helplessness Blues will help draw action all the way to the corners, but taking 3-4 turns to get to them requires quite a commitment.

Hm. Maybe I should bump the ruins back a little...

It should take exactly 3 turns for 5-6 move figures, less for figures with more move and/or flight. 4 move figures would take longer. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing (not that you're implying it is).

[boromir96]

Originally Posted by Killometer

Special rules like that are great for a scenario or casual play, probably less great in an open tournament setting. As a TD I'd be reluctant to include a map balanced with that kind of extra requirements.

Officially figures can see across voids, but they must count range around voids:

Just wondering, can you fly over voids?

[caps]

Originally Posted by boromir96

Just wondering, can you fly over voids?

I think not.

[caps]

Any last minute suggestions before I submit this one?

I tried to combine all the revisions I had made with what the original version had going for it.

Reset

Spoiler Alert!

[Viegon]

Map Review by the Uncompetitive & Inexperienced Map Critic for the map Pocket Full of Posies

This one caught my eye right-away because of the battle arena look and the speediness of the games that was obvious from first glance. And after playing three games on it, it's held up to those thoughts.

Very nice looking map that immediately screams battle arena. The round shape with the spread out startzones and relatively small size makes great quick (but not too quick) games that use most if not all of the map, and has you coming from all angles. The height is distributed nicely, and there are no obvious Raelin perches (trust me, she was in two of the games I played and one of them she was on both teams). The heights are quickly accessible for range, but thanks to the LoS blockers and the small map size, melee still has a fighting chance against even strong range. Though you'd think that such a small map with so many LoS blockers on it would get crowded, and Rats would be too good, it really didn't come off that way; really, I felt it was the perfect size and openness.

I could probably go on a little longer about all the upsides I found to the map, but as to not double then length of the thread I'll stop there and say I loved it before I move on to the negative criticism (not that there's much of it). Really, just two complaints that are quit minor:
1) The startzones: the layout for them is awesome, but unfortunately that makes it hard to remember them if you don't have the build instructions printed or open on the computer. Pretty minor, but I would suggest swapping around the grass/sand/rock tiles and turn all of the startzone spaces into rock or sand surrounded by grass. Like I said, minor, but it probably wouldn't be hard to work and would make things a little simpler.
2) This also has to do with the startzones, though it's not really negative at all: if both armies are smaller, with the way the startzones are, you can have some oddly placed battles because of where you decide to put your small army.

Overall, I really liked this one, and there's barely any changes I can see to make. Great job, caps.

[caps]

Thanks for the review Viegon!

Originally Posted by Viegon

1) The startzones: the layout for them is awesome, but unfortunately that makes it hard to remember them if you don't have the build instructions printed or open on the computer. Pretty minor, but I would suggest swapping around the grass/sand/rock tiles and turn all of the startzone spaces into rock or sand surrounded by grass. Like I said, minor, but it probably wouldn't be hard to work and would make things a little simpler.

Ah, I should have thought of that. I'll see what I can do, but I think some of the SZ are 24-hexxers. I'll give it a shot sometime soon.

Originally Posted by Viegon

2) This also has to do with the startzones, though it's not really negative at all: if both armies are smaller, with the way the startzones are, you can have some oddly placed battles because of where you decide to put your small army.

Yes, that sounds like an interesting factor of this map. It would be easy to do small-point heroes-only free-for-alls by dividing the start-zones up a little differently.