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  #13  
Old May 21st, 2020, 04:36 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

It is a good point, we could try and do more of a horse mechanic if we want to do any kind of self bonding. I'd be fine with minimizing or stepping away from standard orc bonding.
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  #14  
Old May 21st, 2020, 06:59 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I could see some sort of strategic bonding working where the orcs receive a bonus (move, attack, range) if they don't bond with their hero. I know that's been done but it adds another element that could boost an already decent squad and incorporates flexibility.
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  #15  
Old May 21st, 2020, 07:39 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

What if the only bonding is movement bonding with orc figures?

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  #16  
Old May 21st, 2020, 08:24 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

Do we have a design philosophy that we want to stick to for HoME? As in the gameplay experience we want the project to offer. I think we need that in mind before we get too far carried away with the designs themselves. I say this because I think Bonding in any form is one of the strongest ability classes in the game, and we're about to put it on the first squad we're discussing. If we do that, we risk these guys becoming the benchmark for a huge swathe of what we do here.
In my opinion, there are enough bonding squads in classic 'Scape, they're a huge part of the game, and pretty much every one of them is at least somewhat playable. If we decide we want to do more of that, I'm absolutely happy to go in that direction, but I'm just not convinced that that kind of gameplay is the best way to represent Middle Earth in 'Scape. The Fellowship are at an inherent disadvantage here, because we're putting them in a game where Heroes are objectively worse than Squads, and I think we need to try and counteract that disadvantage rather than play into it.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 08:55 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I see your points, but I don't think the heroes would be at such a clear disadvantage. Poll 3 (synergy) is currently leaning strongly towards designing hero units around bonding (Gimli with axegrinders, Boromir with KoW, etc). I suppose if we're talking about more complex designs that would play exclusively against other HoME units that's another discussion.

There're limits we can try putting on bonding too, if it's clear it will really unbalance things. Just my 2 cents.
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  #18  
Old May 21st, 2020, 09:31 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I am thinking of this in terms of HoME as more of a separate entity, designed to be compatible with Classic, but as a standalone. If we're aiming to be completely integrated with Classic, the Bonding issue evolves slightly. Then our Bonding Orcs either have to be better the the Gruts, which then forces us to ramp up the power level across our designs to match that, or accept that our Orcs will be inferior, and therefore redundant.
And at the end of the day, we seen Bonding. It's been done so many times in so many ways. It's always efficient, and it almost always warps the environment around it, because taking two turns each order marker is usually the best thing to be doing. Making strong units is easy, making interesting, unique, and thematic units, I feel, is far more worth it.
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  #19  
Old May 21st, 2020, 09:45 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

You're making a lot of very persuasive points there, Archie.

Thinking about things like design philosophy and how all of our units fit together is, by the way, something that a Council would be responsible for over time.

Anyway, on topic I think you've talked me out of any kind of straight bonding. I think movement bonding, as a kind of horde movement thing, is an interesting thing to discuss. But I would like to see what other kinds of directions we want to go in.

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  #20  
Old May 21st, 2020, 10:15 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

How about having Orc heroes give an aura that is a mix of good & bad abilities instead of bonding?

So a hero like Lurtz would have a power like this:
Intimidate
All friendly orc figures within 4 clear sight spaces of Lurtz get +1 to attack but roll 1 less defense die.

So heroes give their squads a boost, but it is only useful in some circumstances. Seems more thematic to me (orc leaders were always bossing their squad members around and pushing them to the brink) and makes them play much differently than classic 'scape orcs.

You could add a movement bonding potentially as well, but that might make them too powerful. I think having to invest one or two OMs on the hero (like Raelin) is good, and then the hero is set up as a strong end-game figure (at least Lurtz would be, with likely 5 range and a decent attack).

I do agree with Archie thought that bonding in the classic sense would be bad for these guys. I think when we do bonding, it makes more sense for HoME figures to bond with classic figures and operate as more stand-alone OM guys in Middle-Earth only battles.
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  #21  
Old May 21st, 2020, 10:18 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

Mixed or situational auras are good. Then we wind up making tools that are more fit to a given job instead an all purpose hammer for every occasion.

I wouldnt mind exploring that option, especially for our bad guys.
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  #22  
Old May 21st, 2020, 10:21 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

The Marro don't really have bonding and they work well. In fact, the Stingers and Marro Warriors are probably much better without the Hive or Tul-Bak-Ra.

I think our orcs should try to stand alone like the Marro can.
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  #23  
Old May 21st, 2020, 11:42 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I think it was in one of the polls, someone mentioned that HoME wouldn't be worth playing much for the squads, and I thought adding a Glad/Blast type combo to buff them up might add some interest, but just coming up with some cool standalone Marro-esque abilities would be really cool too. I just don't want to design these common squad cards and then have no one use them. There has to be an interesting design to push them forward, they should feel unique. We can make compelling, competitive, fun to play squads without making them OP, it'll just take a little ingenuity.
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  #24  
Old May 22nd, 2020, 12:09 AM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

Agreed, squads need to be thematic and have something of a wow factor. We have the races available to do it. I'm getting a box of Elves on monday, I may get some inspiration for them.

I'm not against a glad/blast style movement. As long as they dont have cyberclaw I'm good lol, that ability triggers me. I would be willing to explore that type of bonding or hoarders style movement for moria orcs
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