Any other childfree people here?

[weebaer]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

I'm married without kids, and I'm 21. The funniest part is nearly everyone asks if we have kids already/if she's pregnant, or if that's the reason we got married. No, it was mainly because we love each other GASP!

Doesn't help that nearly all of the couples our age we know (married or not) have at least one kid by now. Doesn't mean we have to at this moment.

We'll probably have kids in the future, I just don't like the assumptions and pressure about it.

whoa, first of all anyone who dared to ask me when my wife and I were going to have kids got a quick "none of your DAMN business" response.

Were feelings hurt? Certainly! Did I care? Nope. It bugs the crap outta me when people get to adulthood and are clueless to certain social barriers.

So don't ever let anyone tell you how soon to have kids. That is totally up to you and your spouse.

It bothers me even more because I have a brother who was married before me who wanted to start his family but couldnt due to infertility. He and is wife were heart broken. I would totally lose it when people would say to him, "Wow, you're letting your little brother get ahead of you, he has 2 kids, its time you catch up eh? blah blah blah".

So inconsiderate....sheesh.

[Filthy the Clown]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

I'm married without kids, and I'm 21. The funniest part is nearly everyone asks if we have kids already/if she's pregnant, or if that's the reason we got married.

Just wait until you are 38 and married without kids. Then, the questions really start to fly.

On a sidenote: I enjoy spending time with my sisters' kids; at the end of the day, they go home.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Originally Posted by Hahma

Well you have the right to your opinion, but my I have to say "WTF, are you serious?" You think that when people get married and want to start a family, their first thoughts should be to adopt?

Yes.

Why open another bag of chips when we already have open ones?

If you are so big on thinking adoption is the righteous path, then you adopt kids and walk the walk before insulting and criticizing people that want to have children together.

It is the righteous path. Does it not make sense to love preexisting children first than to create more children that need to be loved?

If you're going to have children anyways you might as well adopt or at least try to.

Some people don't want to have children and that is fine. That's great for them and for the lifestyle they choose. I would never tell someone that they should or shouldn't want to have children, that's none of my business. So I certainly don't appreciate being called selfish or a Xenophobe for wanting to have children with my wife.

It's selfish and xenophobic to disregard a child because it doesn't look like you or share your genes or because it gets to be in your (wife's) belly for ~9 months. The point of raising children should be for their sake, not so you can be amused by a mini me running around.

I find that to be a reasonable position. Would you like me to try and sugar coat my wordings for you?

[Sock]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

Yes.

Why open another bag of chips when we already have open ones?

Did you just compare raising a child - something that takes the equivalent of two decades of hard work, unconditional love, and tremendous stress - to eating a potato chip?

There are a few difference here that you don't seem to understand. Being a parent changes your entire life. Opening a bag of chips takes about 10 seconds and is then thrown in the trash and forgotten about. One requires spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to clothe, feed, educate, house, and keep safe. The other costs about a dollar.

It is the righteous path. Does it not make sense to love preexisting children first than to create more children that need to be loved?

If you're going to have children anyways you might as well adopt or at least try to.

Look. I don't know if you realize it, but this was incredibly offensive. Before you try and take the moral high ground in this discussion, put yourself in someone else's shoes.

You obviously don't want children, and aren't even thinking about adopting a child. How are you any better than the people you criticize? Other parents are working to raise functional, constructive members of society, and you're going to sit back and claim they're actions are "Unrighteous"? What have you done that makes you superior to those wicked, xenophobic, baby-producing people?

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

It's selfish and xenophobic to disregard a child because it doesn't look like you or share your genes or because it gets to be in your (wife's) belly for ~9 months. The point of raising children should be for their sake, not so you can be amused by a mini me running around.

I find that to be a reasonable position. Would you like me to try and sugar coat my wordings for you?

Why would you need to sugar coat it? I just find it unusual that a person would consider the majority of the world to be selfish and Xenophobic. You obviously don't have a clue as to why people have children. You formulate some odd notions, and it's probably for the best that you decided not to raise children.

[weebaer]

Thank you Sock for saying everything most of us were thinking.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Originally Posted by Sock

Did you just compare raising a child - something that takes the equivalent of two decades of hard work, unconditional love, and tremendous stress - to eating a potato chip?

There are a few difference here that you don't seem to understand. Being a parent changes your entire life. Opening a bag of chips takes about 10 seconds and is then thrown in the trash and forgotten about. One requires spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to clothe, feed, educate, house, and keep safe. The other costs about a dollar.

Yes, I used an analogy.

Look. I don't know if you realize it, but this was incredibly offensive.

Offensive =/= untrue.

Before you try and take the moral high ground in this discussion, put yourself in someone else's shoes.

You obviously don't want children, and aren't even thinking about adopting a child. How are you any better than the people you criticize? Other parents are working to raise functional, constructive members of society, and you're going to sit back and claim you're better than them? What have you done that makes you better than those wicked, xenophobic, baby-producing people?

Are you going to attack me or my arguments?

I criticize the idea that adoption should be disregarded. If someone that holds that belief takes it personally, too bad.

[weebaer]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

Well, it's not just the money. It's free time in general.

This pretty much sums it up. I totally agree. Selfish people should not have children.

I am by no means the perfect dad, but I am trying my very best.

It takes a special person to have the fortitude, humility and love to raise a child successfully. If you are worried about free time then it would be MUCH better for your kids (who I assume would be adopted) and society for you to remain child free.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Originally Posted by Hahma

Why would you need to sugar coat it? I just find it unusual that a person would consider the majority of the world to be selfish and Xenophobic. You obviously don't have a clue as to why people have children. You formulate some odd notions, and it's probably for the best that you decided not to raise children.

Could you inform me why people have children then? And which of those reasons are exclusive to having biological children?

I have a feeling that many of the latter ones would be xenophobic or selfish.

Originally Posted by weebaer

This pretty much sums it up. I totally agree. Selfish people should not have children.

I agree.

It takes a special person to have the fortitude, humility and love to raise a child successfully.

I agree.

If you are worried about free time then it would be MUCH better for your kids (who I assume would be adopted) and society for you to remain child free.

Hence why I remain childfree. I do not think that having biological children makes one less selfish than a childfree person though.

If a parent of adopted children was to assert that they were more selfless than me, I'd agree with that. I wouldn't really agree that a fire fighter rescuing people from the building he himself set on fire is more of a hero than someone who neither sets fire to buildings nor saves people from them, though. If that makes sense.

If you fix a problem that you created you just kind of return to 0. I'd say it only counts if you fix other people's problems.

[dok]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

I know adoption is hard (I hear that constantly whenever I suggest adoption, if someone has any knowledge on the matter it would be appreciated), but it seems many parents don't even consider it.

Please explicitly articulate why you don't want to adopt and raise children.

Once you have, explain why these same arguments cannot apply to me when I have biological children.

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

Personally I think it is selfish and xenophobic to prefer having biological children over adopted children. Raising children should be for the sake of the children themselves, and ignoring preexisting children up for adoption because they don't look like you or share your genes is selfish and xenophobic.

You say this as though it is self-evidently true. You might try to offer some supporting evidence. Why is it selfish to want biological offspring?

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

Are you going to attack me or my arguments?

I criticize the idea that adoption should be disregarded. If someone that holds that belief takes it personally, too bad.

Your argument is simply to call people that have children selfish Xenophobes. That's not an argument, that's attacking. You're a hypocrite.

You say you criticize the idea that adoption should be disregarded. So I suppose married couples should use contraceptives forever just so they can't procreate their own children by accident, just so they can adopt other people's children? Do you have consideration for people's religion that is against contraceptives?

[Aldin]

PGS,

Raising your own kids is easier than raising adopted kids. By sharing the same genetics you share a lot of the same pre-dispositions and naturally understand one another's perspectives more easily. If we want the parents of adopted children to be good at it, the most natural way to have access to the good that comes from experience is for them to have biological children first. And then the absolute best circumstance becomes nuclear families after a certain number of biological children looking at their circumstances and deciding that they have both the capability and the desire to adopt. This puts adopted children in the best possible position with regard to competent, experienced and loving parenting.

~Aldin, not discounting the value of couples adopting without biological children - simply pointing out the advantages of having biological children first