Public Design Workshop

[Midgieboy3]

He could really start with a range number of 6 or 7 because he often carried a bow or a ranged weapon of some sort.

I thought this was a good idea also, every heroclix figure I saw only has him with his sword. I assumed can't shoot a gun or a Bow if you don't have one. That's why I thought there are 2 Mystiques.

Like I've said I don't care how he looks as long as someday I get to plug him into the C3G world.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Shakedown, and Efficient Killer are used during the phase of attacking, so he can use those (Makeshift Weaponry as well, but only if he's got an ability allowing for multiple attacks or the power's done in such a way as to mimic all of a character's abilities). Spirit Arise is after being destroyed, and has nothing to do with defending, so that's out, and Criminal Deception also doesn't affect moving, attacking or defending, instead meaning you can't attack him, so that's out too. Neither of those powers actually reference defending anywhere. That's how I'd interpret it anyway.

I think you are making some distinctions there that aren't really supported. Efficient killer is after destroying something else; Spirit Arise is after being destroyed. How can one be "in the phase of attacking" and the other not?

FTM "the phase of attacking" is just not a defined thing. That is kind of my point. I get what you are trying to do but the number of difficult judgement calls inherent in the "when moving, attacking, or defending with Taskmaster" language leaves quite a bit open to interpretation. I think the only solid way to interpret it is really restrictive - i.e. anything that's not something that happens while, or directly as a result of, rolling attack or defense dice, can't be copied. ("While moving" is pretty well-defined, so that's OK.)

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Yeah, that's seriously weird, but you're going to have to limit it so much if you want to avoid all theme breaks - some weirdness will have to be embraced.

Oh, I agree, I was just pointing it out. That's probably the weirdest special attack he could imitate.

[japes]

Option A. If you are not reusing the Mimic power and you want to go with something similar I would argue that it should just be attack and defend stats and not movement. Not sure thematically how to justify his getting faster by memorizing someone's moves.

Option B. on the other front however, I agree with whoever above mentioned that he memorizes this stuff ahead of time and shows up ready to fight not ready to learn how to fight. I'm thinking this direction is less about learning the moves and more of him having stats that show that he is an outstanding fighter and then a power that lets him improve his stats as he faces an opponent.

If he had a counter strike ability and some Photographic Reflex ability that make an opponent roll 1 less attack die against him could be a fun combo.

I also think it would be cool to have this triggered with a successful attack by an attacking figure so that thematically he gets better the more times that figure attacks him but he would be vulnerable to single attacks from different figures.

So if Spider-Man attacks him straight up it would get harder to wound TM each time Spider-Man inflicted a wound on him but if Spider-Man attacked and then Captain America the second turn and then Wolverine the third they would be more successful.

[japes]

Photographic Reflexes
If Taskmaster receives one or more wounds from an attack, for the remainder of the game if that figure attacks Taskmaster again that figure rolls one less attack die to a minimum of one.

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by japes

Photographic Reflexes
If Taskmaster receives one or more wounds from an attack, for the remainder of the game if that figure attacks Taskmaster again that figure rolls one less attack die to a minimum of one.

I think you would want a marker for a power like that.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Tornado

I think you would want a marker for a power like that.

yeah my only concern was the tracking aspect.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Karat

Nah, some wonkiness is okay.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

some weirdness will have to be embraced.

Entirely disagree with this idea. I'm okay with limiting a character's thematic abilities for feasibility, but I'm not impressed with expanding them just for the heck of it.

If anyone is supporting the special power/attack copying because they're excited about a design that mimics powers, here's another undrafted classic Avengers villain that does just that.

I am liking the ideas getting tossed around that don't involve Mimic or power-copying. It feels more in-character for Taskmaster to have already done his homework.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not taking a hard line against all theme weirdness ever, but it feels a little early in the design process to start compromising. I don't feel like there's a good case built up for settling on a weird direction.

[japes]

Photographic Reflexes
If Taskmaster receives one or more wounds from an attack, place a Grey Photographic Reflexes marker on the attacking figures card. Figures attacking Taskmaster subtract one from attack for each Grey Photographic Reflexes on its card to a minimum of one.

I picked grey because we need more grey markers...

I like the idea of combo-ing this with counter strike so that the more a figure attacks the more likely they will get hurt instead. Seems fitting.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by dok

I think you are making some distinctions there that aren't really supported. Efficient killer is after destroying something else; Spirit Arise is after being destroyed. How can one be "in the phase of attacking" and the other not?

FTM "the phase of attacking" is just not a defined thing. That is kind of my point. I get what you are trying to do but the number of difficult judgement calls inherent in the "when moving, attacking, or defending with Taskmaster" language leaves quite a bit open to interpretation. I think the only solid way to interpret it is really restrictive - i.e. anything that's not something that happens while, or directly as a result of, rolling attack or defense dice, can't be copied. ("While moving" is pretty well-defined, so that's OK.)

SHAKEDOWN
After attacking an opponent’s adjacent figure with a normal attack, if the defending figure is still engaged with Rorschach, your opponent may immediately reveal and remove one unrevealed Order Marker from any Army Card that opponent controls. If your opponent does not reveal and remove an Order Marker, Rorschach may attack one additional time, adding 1 die to his Attack number. Figures with the Super Strength special power are not affected by Shakedown.

EFFICIENT KILLER
When Mother Russia destroys an opponent's figure with her normal attack, she may attack again. Mother Russia may continue attacking with her normal attack until she does not destroy a figure. Mother Russia cannot attack more than three times in a single turn.

Both of these clearly reference attacking. Spirit Arise only mentions being destroyed, never defending. Criminal Deception never mentions defending. I'm not seeing a problem.

Originally Posted by Ronin

Entirely disagree with this idea. I'm okay with limiting a character's thematic abilities for feasibility, but I'm not impressed with expanding them just for the heck of it.

If anyone is supporting the special power/attack copying because they're excited about a design that mimics powers, here's another undrafted classic Avengers villain that does just that.

I am liking the ideas getting tossed around that don't involve Mimic or power-copying. It feels more in-character for Taskmaster to have already done his homework.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not taking a hard line against all theme weirdness ever, but it feels a little early in the design process to start compromising. I don't feel like there's a good case built up for settling on a weird direction.

It's weird, and it may not be ideal, but I'm not seeing another way to get all the cool things he should be able to mimic. The theme weirdness has been cut down on massively.

[Ronin]

There are a couple of other perfectly viable ways of representing him that have been brought up; mimicking stats like Echo, or without directly mimicking in battle at all. The latter is actually the idea I've come to prefer, despite initially suggesting re-using Mimic; Tasky's a pro who's been studying supers for years, and it's far more common for Taskmaster to show up prepared than it is for him to start using new moves from an enemy mid-battle.

I don't think it's ever been C3G practice to make sure a design does every single thing the character is thematically capable of. Guys like Doom and Venom would have very cluttered cards otherwise. A good thematic design hits the highlights and fights like the character should, which is very possible for Taskmaster without letting him copy special powers or attacks.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think, since he wouldn't have SS or Flying a four power card that lets him use Swordplay for adjacent attacks, a Counterstrike ability, Photographic Reflexes, and a Special Attack with options (a la using a gun or a bow; use standard ranges here) would make for a beast of a Taskmaster and a sort of evil Punisher.

EDIT: How's this look?

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = TASKMASTER
SECRET IDENTY = Tony Masters
SPECIES = Human
UNIQUENESS = Unique Hero
CLASS = Mercenary
PERSONALITY = Brilliant

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = ?

SWORDPLAY
If Taskmaster attacks an adjacent figure with his normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, he may attack an adjacent figure again. He may continue attacking adjacent figures, rolling 1 fewer attack die for each subsequent attack, until you fail to roll a skull.

COUNTER STRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

MASTER OF WEAPONS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 4 OR Range 8. Attack 3.
When using Master of Weapons Special Attack, Taskmaster may attack one additional time using the same Range and Attack.

PHOTOGRAPHIC REFLEXES
If Taskmaster receives one or more wounds from an attack, place a Grey Photographic Reflexes marker on the attacking figures card. Figures attacking Taskmaster subtract one from attack for each Grey Photographic Reflexes on its card to a minimum of one.

[Midgieboy3]

Originally Posted by Ronin

There are a couple of other perfectly viable ways of representing him that have been brought up; mimicking stats like Echo, or without directly mimicking in battle at all. The latter is actually the idea I've come to prefer, despite initially suggesting re-using Mimic; Tasky's a pro who's been studying supers for years, and it's far more common for Taskmaster to show up prepared than it is for him to start using new moves from an enemy mid-battle.

I don't think it's ever been C3G practice to make sure a design does every single thing the character is thematically capable of. Guys like Doom and Venom would have very cluttered cards otherwise. A good thematic design hits the highlights and fights like the character should, which is very possible for Taskmaster without letting him copy special powers or attacks.

True.