Engineers of Valhalla Brainstorming Thread

[Muskie]

So I have been working with the Obelisk on Thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3646449

I see them with a d20 power when you are next to them.

If a unique hero starts their turn next to a Obelisk and does not leave engagement with the Obelisk during their movement, they roll a D20 and apply the following affect before they attack:

1-5 nothing happens
6-8 -1 defense until you leave the obelisk (bummer)
9-11 counterstrike against normal ranged attacks (it is magical)
12-14 +1 attack until you leave the obelisk
15-17 +1 defense until you leave the obelisk
18-20 teleport to another Obelisk (not sure how to choose if there is more than one more on the board).


this is what I was thinking. You could do less powers that are more powerful, with it harder to get. I like board touchstones that can be chaotic. Kind of a hero support (unless you roll under 8, obelisks can be tricky). They could come in a 2 or 4 pack for the board, depending on board size.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by coachmuskie

So I have been working with the Obelisk on Thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3646449

I see them with a d20 power when you are next to them.

If a unique hero starts their turn next to a Obelisk and does not leave engagement with the Obelisk during their movement, they roll a D20 and apply the following affect before they attack:

1-5 nothing happens
6-8 -1 defense until you leave the obelisk (bummer)
9-11 counterstrike against normal ranged attacks (it is magical)
12-14 +1 attack until you leave the obelisk
15-17 +1 defense until you leave the obelisk
18-20 teleport to another Obelisk (not sure how to choose if there is more than one more on the board).


this is what I was thinking. You could do less powers that are more powerful, with it harder to get. I like board touchstones that can be chaotic. Kind of a hero support (unless you roll under 8, obelisks can be tricky). They could come in a 2 or 4 pack for the board, depending on board size.

It does need a better name to represent what it does. Perhaps "Rune of Power". As far as the possible abilities it can have, similar to the Hedrons, it seems that there is alot of things packed into one item. Sometimes keeping the item a little more simple is better as far as game play goes. Every turn a card is going to have to be referenced to see what goes on. An interesting idea here would be to give the "Rune of Power" one positive effect, with a lesser negative effect to keep figures from sitting next to a rune the whole game. Instead of focusing on just Teleportation, why not something like. "While adjacent to a Rune of Ivor, you may target an enemy figure from any Rune of Ivor on the battlefield with a normal attack." or something to that effect. Wizards sight, or true sight, or wizards eye is something that could do something like that. Then you could have the user roll to recieve damage for using the power. Something like a 5 or lower, or on a roll of a 1 or something.

Or have a "Rune of Wannok" that allows the user to add attack dice to their normal attack. Afterwards they roll a 20 sided die to roll for damage, and subtract as many extra dice they roll from their roll. Keeping with a simpler theme for the terrain makes it easier for players to use it.

[Muskie]

Originally Posted by TREX

It does need a better name to represent what it does. Perhaps "Rune of Power". As far as the possible abilities it can have, similar to the Hedrons, it seems that there is alot of things packed into one item. Sometimes keeping the item a little more simple is better as far as game play goes. Every turn a card is going to have to be referenced to see what goes on. An interesting idea here would be to give the "Rune of Power" one positive effect, with a lesser negative effect to keep figures from sitting next to a rune the whole game. Instead of focusing on just Teleportation, why not something like. "While adjacent to a Rune of Ivor, you may target an enemy figure from any Rune of Ivor on the battlefield with a normal attack." or something to that effect. Wizards sight, or true sight, or wizards eye is something that could do something like that. Then you could have the user roll to recieve damage for using the power. Something like a 5 or lower, or on a roll of a 1 or something.

Or have a "Rune of Wannok" that allows the user to add attack dice to their normal attack. Afterwards they roll a 20 sided die to roll for damage, and subtract as many extra dice they roll from their roll. Keeping with a simpler theme for the terrain makes it easier for players to use it.

Awesome feedback! I didn't even think to name it! Very true about simpler. Ok, time to rework and simplify. It is so true about checking the card. You do not want people to have to do that. I tell me students to simplify all of the time, and then I get caught up in it!

[Muskie]

Originally Posted by Muskie

So I have been working with the Obelisk on Thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3646449

I see them with a d20 power when you are next to them.

If a unique hero starts their turn next to a Obelisk and does not leave engagement with the Obelisk during their movement, they roll a D20 and apply the following affect before they attack:

1-5 nothing happens
6-8 -1 defense until you leave the obelisk (bummer)
9-11 counterstrike against normal ranged attacks (it is magical)
12-14 +1 attack until you leave the obelisk
15-17 +1 defense until you leave the obelisk
18-20 teleport to another Obelisk (not sure how to choose if there is more than one more on the board).


this is what I was thinking. You could do less powers that are more powerful, with it harder to get. I like board touchstones that can be chaotic. Kind of a hero support (unless you roll under 8, obelisks can be tricky). They could come in a 2 or 4 pack for the board, depending on board size.

Massive rethink to make things simpler!! The Obelisk radiates energy that disrupts special powers. If you are sitting on one of the six hexes surrounding the Obelisk, you cannot use any special power (offensive, defensive or Braxas stuff). after revealing an order maker on a figure, if you finish your move adjacent to the Obelisk, before attacking, you may roll a d20. On a roll of 19 or 20, you may activate the power of the Obelisk and move one of your opponent's figures that is 4 of less spaces from you and place them adjacent to you on the same level (if possible).

I thought about not allowing people to attack with special powers, but decided to make the obelisk a zone of negation instead of a shield. You have a small chance of pulling someone to you and taking away their special defense, but it is only 10%, so not too powerful. It does make range 1 special attacks reposition to be adjacent and not be in the zone.

[TREX]

@coachmuskie , I have to remind myself that sometimes less is more quite often. There have been so many times that I get so excited about a character or thing that I want to cram as much awesome in there as possible. In the end though, a quick and easy rule set for a piece of terrain usually hits the table more because it’s easy to use. Remind yourself as well that we have plenty of room for a bunch of ideas for a bunch of different terrain. That’s why, with the portal, it’s pretty cut and dry. Go from portal to portal, and it can’t get to confusing that way. The arcane rift idea is just thematic and optional icing on the cake. With arcane rift, I might make the possible negative side affect the same as rolling for a treasure glyph to keep it simple with a 5 or better and you don’t get thrown out on a random space. Simple. Yet it adds something very useful to the game, that just about anyone can recognize just from looking at it.

[Archie97]

So my thoughts on terrain are that simplicity ABSOLUTELY rules. Look at all the official terrain we got. Nothing that isn’t a destructible object needed a card. Jungle pieces, shadow tiles, lava etc, all have an interesting, dynamic effect on battlefield construction and gameplay, but can all be understood and memorised by an 8 year old.
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a place in hero’s cape for a bunch of crazy whacky obelisks with 6 different effects or what have you, but if you’re trying for a C3V-level “official” project, this is not that place.
The portals are an interesting idea for sure, as TREX says, but I’m even less sold on the Arcane Rift idea. First of all it adds a layer of variance that I think will make it a more difficult sell to many players. I personally don’t like the idea of the map bringing any level of uncontrolled variance to a game. The only official pieces that do that are the two lava tiles, and even then molten lava barely counts as variance, and lava field is easily avoided as you roll once at the end of the round.
In my opinion, the map should be a known sum. You should be able to sit down at the beginning of a game, and know exactly what everything on the map is going to do. Figure, combat, and you opponent bring enough unknowns by far. Of course I’ll reiterate that I’m referring explicitly to a competitive setting here, whatever you want to happen in a casual game is absolutely your call.
This could be a super interesting project, and one I would love to be onboard with, but I think that baby steps are key, IMO a terrain piece will need more testing than a figure, and too many knobs to turn on the first few pieces is going to make hammering out and streamlining that process exponentially more difficult.

[Muskie]

Originally Posted by Archie97

So my thoughts on terrain are that simplicity ABSOLUTELY rules. Look at all the official terrain we got. Nothing that isn’t a destructible object needed a card. Jungle pieces, shadow tiles, lava etc, all have an interesting, dynamic effect on battlefield construction and gameplay, but can all be understood and memorised by an 8 year old.
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a place in hero’s cape for a bunch of crazy whacky obelisks with 6 different effects or what have you, but if you’re trying for a C3V-level “official” project, this is not that place.
The portals are an interesting idea for sure, as TREX says, but I’m even less sold on the Arcane Rift idea. First of all it adds a layer of variance that I think will make it a more difficult sell to many players. I personally don’t like the idea of the map bringing any level of uncontrolled variance to a game. The only official pieces that do that are the two lava tiles, and even then molten lava barely counts as variance, and lava field is easily avoided as you roll once at the end of the round.
In my opinion, the map should be a known sum. You should be able to sit down at the beginning of a game, and know exactly what everything on the map is going to do. Figure, combat, and you opponent bring enough unknowns by far. Of course I’ll reiterate that I’m referring explicitly to a competitive setting here, whatever you want to happen in a casual game is absolutely your call.
This could be a super interesting project, and one I would love to be onboard with, but I think that baby steps are key, IMO a terrain piece will need more testing than a figure, and too many knobs to turn on the first few pieces is going to make hammering out and streamlining that process exponentially more difficult.

Very well put! I get caught up on really cool ideas, and then lose the simplicity idea. simple and straightforward is the key to success.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Archie97

So my thoughts on terrain are that simplicity ABSOLUTELY rules. Look at all the official terrain we got. Nothing that isn’t a destructible object needed a card. Jungle pieces, shadow tiles, lava etc, all have an interesting, dynamic effect on battlefield construction and gameplay, but can all be understood and memorised by an 8 year old.
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a place in hero’s cape for a bunch of crazy whacky obelisks with 6 different effects or what have you, but if you’re trying for a C3V-level “official” project, this is not that place.
The portals are an interesting idea for sure, as TREX says, but I’m even less sold on the Arcane Rift idea. First of all it adds a layer of variance that I think will make it a more difficult sell to many players. I personally don’t like the idea of the map bringing any level of uncontrolled variance to a game. The only official pieces that do that are the two lava tiles, and even then molten lava barely counts as variance, and lava field is easily avoided as you roll once at the end of the round.
In my opinion, the map should be a known sum. You should be able to sit down at the beginning of a game, and know exactly what everything on the map is going to do. Figure, combat, and you opponent bring enough unknowns by far. Of course I’ll reiterate that I’m referring explicitly to a competitive setting here, whatever you want to happen in a casual game is absolutely your call.
This could be a super interesting project, and one I would love to be onboard with, but I think that baby steps are key, IMO a terrain piece will need more testing than a figure, and too many knobs to turn on the first few pieces is going to make hammering out and streamlining that process exponentially more difficult.

Great points, and I for sure agree on simplicity. The arcane rift idea was one I had that was optional at best. The portals work perfectly as a way to travel from point a to point b without any confusion, and without the need for a card even. I had it on there as an optional thing but think it would be even better without being on there. Even with it’s one thing it would be a great tool for map makers and allow for competitive maps to be multi level without having to use ladders. In a general rule of thumb. Keeping a terrain piece to a minimal number of effects is an optimal route. For example: this piece of terrain does x. Instead of multiple effects. My thoughts on a turret or gun mount operated by a miniature would have: a condition to use it, and an ability it does. Very simple, but easy to understand, fun, and effective way to change things up. I look forward to whatever you add to the conversation. Feel free to jump in.

[Tornado]

This is easily solved by having both terrain for competitive and casual play.
Terrain that can be set up to work like an AI, like the gun embankments, could make for possible solo or co-op play scenarios.

[Archie97]

Originally Posted by Tornado

This is easily solved by having both terrain for competitive and casual play.
Terrain that can be set up to work like an AI, like the gun embankments, could make for possible solo or co-op play scenarios.

As I said, there is definitely a place in 'scape for more intricate, splashy terrain pieces, I've made some myself. But I believe that place is within playgroups and the Custom Terrain thread in general. If the aim is a C3V style project, producing balanced terrain pieces that have a positive, dynamic affect on gameplay in such a way that they are both worth using, and avle to be used in a tournament/competitive environment should be the goal.

[TREX]

It seems like everyone participating in the thread have a good scope of the basis core ideas we need to consider to move forward with some really fun and interesting terrain.

Edit: as a general rule of thumb, we could limit the terrain pieces to a condition, and an effect to keep them to a level of simplicity.

Arcane Portal for example:
Condition-figures adjacent to an arcane portal may use one space of movement.
Effect- to place their figure on an empty space adjacent to another Arcane portal on the battlefield.

Simple enough, but effectively makes a whole lot of fun new possibilities for map makers.

[TREX]

@lefton4ya , would you want the hedrons in a little set? Maybe one on a three hex, with two one spaced ones. As long as we have a base file, I can scale it and adjust it to whatever is needed and then post the appropriately scaled files onto thingiverse as a remix.