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  #1153  
Old May 1st, 2018, 10:53 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I'd be interested in participating if the project got a little more steam, absolutely. Even if it's just "a list of fixes" and not card images changed.
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  #1154  
Old May 1st, 2018, 11:05 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

As some feedback:

I dislike the X17 change, and prefer the lower-cost version of him. I like the DW7k change, Disengage seems like a no-brainer, but combined with the other changes might push him over the top. The Wizard change will make Sonlen too powerful when combined with Ulginesh, I feel - It'd be be better to buff Ulginesh himself. The Erevan and Otonashi changes seem okay.
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  #1155  
Old May 1st, 2018, 11:45 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I'd be interested in participating in this for sure, but I'd personally prefer for it to be C3V/SoV-inclusive at this point. Even if things have to be revised on occasion when a new unit is released, my group has become quite fond of many C3V/SoV units that don't combine too well with the changes here.
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  #1156  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 12:01 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I’m biased, but I think most anyone still playing HS at this point either considers C3V canon or at the very least has to reckon with it as a widely-used thing.

Is there room to make a slightly different, C3V-inclusive, lower impact thread? With mainly just a loose list, since I know most of us can’t play often enough to play test every change.
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  #1157  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 01:38 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I would be very open to helping start a new C3V/SoV-inclusive version of the CUC, especially now that I'm mostly done with my finals. I know a sizable group of people on my campus that play the game now, so I'm certain that we could get some decent playtesting in at some point during the next semester.

The bigger question is if there's enough of an interest here to do anything along those lines to become reasonably sustainable.
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  #1158  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 08:41 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I would be very open to helping start a new C3V/SoV-inclusive version of the CUC, especially now that I'm mostly done with my finals. I know a sizable group of people on my campus that play the game now, so I'm certain that we could get some decent playtesting in at some point during the next semester.

The bigger question is if there's enough of an interest here to do anything along those lines to become reasonably sustainable.
Yeah, that's an interesting one. I don't keep up on all the latest and greatest stuff coming out of the C3V/SoV, so I'm not extremely well versed on the impacts their designs have on the CUC cards. I think I'll have to set some time aside and go through their units and see what impacts and synergies they have created.

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  #1159  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 09:13 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Like I said, I’d be into it. I couldn’t devote a lot of game tests to it however.
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  #1160  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 09:35 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

There are a hand full of SoV and C3V cards that act as fixes, however some of the units here are so far below the power curve, that even those fixes don't do to much. It seems SoV and C3V try to aim for B territory. I would bet that SoV will never approve an A unit. and you can see C3V has only created three.

Take DK7000. Zettian guards bond and cheerlead the soulborg, 616 can blow it up, Hoplitrons can bond with him, and Death commander can command him, but 7000 is still fairly terrible.

IT would also be good to inventory a few of the ideas that are floating around. I like my DK7000 who has a short range attack, and auto-destruct when destroyed.


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  #1161  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 09:56 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Well, an ideal project would have several different options that people could choose from. Different design directions.
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  #1162  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 10:06 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I would love to contribute, but their are 2 things slowing this down:
  1. Not enough people playtesting. Many people throw out and debate ideas and I think we could come to a agreement on a suggested change for many units, but we need more people to actually PLAY with suggestions, not just theoryscape.
  2. More tournaments and other "organized events" need to allow these changes.
I am willing to do 1 sporadically (maybe 4 times a year) and I will try to convince @NecroBlade to allow CUC cards at Louisville tournaments and @heroscaper2010 to allow at C2P Tournaments, but not guaranteed.

Below is both a promotion of mine and other's alternative projects (many of which already have fixes that can be playtested as is or tweaked and playtested), as well as some logic behind the CUC and my changes
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
I really like what the Competitive Unit Congress is doing with units that are not generally tournament worthy and making them so with slight modifications. They playtest them in tournament situations and make sure the quality is great. However, I am too impatient to wait for their changes so have come up with some additional ones. I hope they don't take offense as they are not slow - they are spending quality time testing, while mine below are thrown together and barely playtested. They are meant to be played in tandem with CUC approved changes, and you can also play with other customs such as C3V, but that might prove overpowering. I recommend them for casual games and not any tourneys, unlike CUC. If you play any of the below, please let me know how they are. They were made in MSE with high-res dungeon style cards, so please excuse artifacts of mixing card backgrounds from older designs with the dungeon style.

You can download a single PDF of all the cards at 3/page here. (I updated for cards added/changed 9/16/14)
While you are at it, download the CUC Passed & Proposed cards at 3/page here.
Also, check out my Classic Customs to Fill in Holes.
If you like CUC & CUA changes, see other threads/users who have made their own modifications of HS cards to make them more competitive:
Competitive Unit Congress
@lefton4ya - Competitive Unit Alters
@rouby44 - Official Units Revisited or A thorough reexamination of Heroscape
@wriggz - Thematic Classic Redesigns
@TheSparkleInYourWater - Recreating Some Official Cards
Customs using Master Set Figures (RotV, SotM, BftU)
Everything is better with bonding! - Custom power mods
...
[CUA Customs]
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  #1163  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 01:28 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dignan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I would be very open to helping start a new C3V/SoV-inclusive version of the CUC, especially now that I'm mostly done with my finals. I know a sizable group of people on my campus that play the game now, so I'm certain that we could get some decent playtesting in at some point during the next semester.

The bigger question is if there's enough of an interest here to do anything along those lines to become reasonably sustainable.
Yeah, that's an interesting one. I don't keep up on all the latest and greatest stuff coming out of the C3V/SoV, so I'm not extremely well versed on the impacts their designs have on the CUC cards. I think I'll have to set some time aside and go through their units and see what impacts and synergies they have created.
There are some really great designs there, along with many units that try to increase the viability of some of the older ones. Quickly going through the CUC PDF for any overlaps that stick out, I remember the following:
  • Tomoe Gozen overlaps with the revised Hatamoto Taro.
  • Kantono Daishi overlaps with the revised Moriko.
  • Crypt Guardians overlap with the revised Sudema.
  • Knights of Blackgaard (along with a plethora of new Relentless units, including the C3V Varkaanans faction) overlap with the revised Khosumet.
  • Master Lao Xin overlaps with the revised Shaolin Monks.
  • Zaeus and some other new Primadons overlap with the revised Gorillinators.
There are a couple of others, like Emperor Andask with Kyrie Supremacy boosting Runa, but those are the main ones with direct synergies that I saw. Of course, all of these changes might also be impacted by the shifted meta that including C3V/SoV would allow, so it may be difficult to know for sure how the other revisions are impacted. I highly recommend taking a look through more of the C3V units when you get the chance (but from my experience, do it in a couple of sittings ).

I'd also agree with wriggz that some of the classic units are too bad to be viable, even with the C3V/SoV additions. Tomoe Gozen is fun to use and all, but I'd still never take classic Hatamoto Taro with her (and I struggle to think of a new unit design that could change that). Some units are practically impossible to fix without outright adjustments to the card.

As for playtesting, I'm inclined to believe that decreasing the minimum number of playtests required to vote on a change would improve turnout, and result in more playtests overall. If we wanted, we could do something along the lines of granting each person 1 vote (to allow people to theoryscape still, and maintain interest even if pressed for time) with 1 more for every playtest that they report.
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  #1164  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 01:47 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Very good list, Astroking.
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