Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

[1Mmirg]

I'm on my way out of town for a bit, so these reviews won't be as developed as usual. I've had a chance to put in a fair number of games on Hell's Gate and Blacktop. Both are definitely solid maps and ones I'd absolutely use again. That said, each have issues as well:

Hell's Gate is a really beautiful and masterful map.

Split start zones make this game require a bit more thought even before the game begins. (And gaming practices for the glyphs have an impact as well--do you know ahead of time? After the first initiative roll? or are the glyphs blind? This kind of map makes that matter quite a bit.)

The initial climb is a challenge--getting out of your start zone takes some effort and getting up to height isn't immediate (though height isn't too far away either).

Melee definitely struggles a bit on this map, though having the road and some decent LOS blockers helps. (One game, my opponent ran his Iron Golem straight into my start zone, ignoring my AE and others on his way in, and just hacked down my Q10 before I could adjust my OMs--I like that this kind of thing is possible and that I was still able to come back from that kind of loss as well.)

The glyphs (as Dignan has shared) aren't quite as equally deployed as they initially appear. Most of the time holding the right glyph is easier than the left, though MW has made a smart choice, imo, by making the left also be the higher point of elevation.

I found a lot of work is done on the near 7-hex and around the glyphs. The road down the middle is useful, but doesn't get to quite enough places to be really useful. With mixed armies, this proved okay, with a melee heavy army, it was a challenge.

The ladders help to speed up some points of access. The water helps to keep things interesting and does help vipers out a touch (though not quite enough to swing any victories).

Another challenge to this map is the narrowness. While it wasn't easy to set up a pod (thanks to battlements and how relatively close each side was to the other, etc.), if you got a strong pod set up, they had quite a lot of field of domination. The map actually plays smaller than it appears (at least it played smaller than I expected).

In my experience, this map led to really active and solid games the vast majority of the time. Things were never boring and there was usually something worth doing and some position shifting, etc. seemed almost constant (well, except for the 4th, once they found a couple of holds).

This is a map I would be comfortable seeing at a tourney, but it wouldn't be among my top choices. The glyphs don't feel quite right and if you end up with a dud on your right, you feel like you're trying to make up for that all game--not that you're out, but just that you're working extra hard. Pods do seem to work a bit more than I'd like. Movement, esp for melee, is a bit tough. And getting rocked back to your start zone is a beast--it's just hard to come back. I found the map a bit unforgiving, though I have to admit that I had some big comebacks on it as well.

This is a top quality map and it's one that I will use again. In my opinion, it is as close to the quality of the Battlefields as you can come without quite being there.

I regretfully vote NO to induct Hell's Gate into the BoV.

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Blacktop is a very different type of map. It's in the family of maps like Fossil and is a fun map, no question.

My biggest issue with it, honestly, is it's structure. Maybe it's just me, but this is the kind of map that feels like it's pushed its limits just too far. Repeatedly, I find myself placing figures on to shifting pieces, catching glimpses of the table underneath, and even a few times disrupting the board (slightly, I'll admit) because there just wasn't enough supporting pieces.

dok has again tried to take an incredibly tough assortment of sets to create a solid map. And as a map, a battlefield, it is solid. As a structure, I wasn't always sure.

Setting that aside, the map is fun and challenging. Distances are very precisely counted out, for movement, for range, etc. You always feel (well, I did) like the mapmaker has purposefully decided that move 4 unit should be able to go here, move 5 to here, and 6 to here, etc. I loved the LOS work. The central high point if blocked from the edges. Each high point had clear limits as to what it could or could not see. The glyph points were low, but reasonably protected.

This is a smart and well crafted map. I'm not sure I agree with what I saw as a preference for range 7 units over range 6 (sure, it's nice to balance things against the 4th, but AGs and others really suffer). And while I like seeing the Aubriens able to reach critical targets, I'm not so sure the Krav or Blasts need the help.

I like that the roads are more useful. They touch up against some of the most critical points. I was happy to see how well even the zombies did on this map. That was a plus.

Like Hell's Gate, if the question was, is this an excellent use of the resources, I could only vote Yes. I don't think I'm aware of any map using the exact resources of either of these that is better. These are incredibly smart builds.

If the question is, would I want to play this map at a tourney, that's where I have to say that I'd have a slight preference not to play Hell's Gate, while Blacktop I would be more neutral toward. I'm bothered a bit by the difference between the large tree and the stalagmite (I wish there were enough pieces so that it could be raised up a level and make the sight blocking more even), I'm bothered by the ease of a strong opening Zelrig attack, I'm bothered by some of the structural issues (though these aren't too bad), I'm bothered by some of the range and movement preferences the map seems to support. None of these are too big, but together they make me nervous as a judge.

I wish with each of these maps that I could offer an "abstain" or a B++ grade or something. Pass or fail is much more difficult. Why not a 3 of 4 stars (or order markers ...)?

But I digress. I believe that Blacktop is a map worth seeing at events and while it may have some issues, I think they are all fairly small (or related to units, like Zelrig, that has a price that includes a first OM hit on some maps) or small enough anyhow that I feel justified in voting YES to induct Blacktop into the BoV.

[mad_wookiee]

Originally Posted by 1Mmirg

This is a map I would be comfortable seeing at a tourney, but it wouldn't be among my top choices. The glyphs don't feel quite right and if you end up with a dud on your right, you feel like you're trying to make up for that all game--not that you're out, but just that you're working extra hard. Pods do seem to work a bit more than I'd like. Movement, esp for melee, is a bit tough. And getting rocked back to your start zone is a beast--it's just hard to come back. I found the map a bit unforgiving, though I have to admit that I had some big comebacks on it as well.

There are a few design considerations on this map that do reflect my personal play style. The glyph thing is one of them. I'll admit that part of me feels that, if you end up with a dud, then that glyph probably shouldn't have been in the pool in the first place. (I like the Gencon list precisely because it's hard to pull a dud off of that list, while also not running the risk of anything particularly overpowering show up.) Beyond that, though - and this gets to another part of your comment - I rabidly dislike blind glyphs. I think that glyphs should be played power-side up unless there's some compelling reason for them to be face down, such as Proftaka in the mix. Playing revealed glyphs from a balanced pool on this map makes for a much better experience imho. Treasure glyphs have also worked well (also revealed).

I agree that the map is kind of unforgiving. To be honest, that was something I wanted out of the map, so to hear that you found it so is a good thing in my book. I find myself lately trying to push the envelope of what a map demands of a player. This is one that demands a lot of decisions and can really punish you for making the wrong one, starting with deciding where you're committing your forces. I can see why some may not want that in a tournament map, but for me, it's part of what I'm aiming for.

Thanks for the review, to both 1Mmirg and Dignan - always appreciated.

[UtahScott]

Post-GenCon, and I've begun searching out maps for NHSD.

I hope Black Gold Jack of Spades & Bad Moon Rising votes can be finalized in September.



(JoS was nominated last November, FWIW. Wonder if that's a record length... )

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by UtahScott

(JoS was nominated last November, FWIW. Wonder if that's a record length... )

That is on me! Gencon is over....BoV back in focus.