The Book of Granite Guardians

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

Have you guys looked at Sgt Drake's history and FAQ? He's been Grappling for years now. Has this come up before?

I did look in RotV Drake's Book, but didn't see anything there addressing this issue. I searched and didn't see anything that jumped out at me. Though admittedly I didn't look in the FAQ....

I don't really see the need for clarification here, though. Both Drake and the GG's say they can move 1 space. Moving onto heavy snow/slippery ice counts as 2 movement spaces. I think it's pretty clear.

[Obsidian]

Originally Posted by killercactus

I don't really see the need for clarification here, though. Both Drake and the GG's say they can move 1 space.

I may be mistaken here, but in Drake's case of grappling over a ruin, I am pretty sure that he has to roll for falling damage since he "falls" from a height of 6. If we allow GG's to gain high ground over ruins should they have to roll for falling damage?

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by J4Jandar

Though the GG's can "teleport" the one space onto heavy snow/slippery ice right?

No - that's what I'm saying. Gain High Ground says you can move each Granite Guardian you control 1 space. Moving onto heavy snow / slippery ice counts as 2 spaces. GHG says they can move up to 4 levels higher, but snow/ice doesn't have anything to do with height.

IMO, just because it's a special move doesn't exempt it from movement restrictions. If Agent Skahen moves an Agent with Cover Fire, do you still count the extra spaces for heavy snow/slippery ice?

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by killercactus

I did look in RotV Drake's Book, but didn't see anything there addressing this issue. I searched and didn't see anything that jumped out at me. Though admittedly I didn't look in the FAQ....

I don't really see the need for clarification here, though. Both Drake and the GG's say they can move 1 space. Moving onto heavy snow/slippery ice counts as 2 movement spaces. I think it's pretty clear.

And now you know why it wasn't in Drakes FAQ. Because he can't do it.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Obsidian

I may be mistaken here, but in Drake's case of grappling over a ruin, I am pretty sure that he has to roll for falling damage since he "falls" from a height of 6. If we allow GG's to gain high ground over ruins should they have to roll for falling damage?

Yes, but aren't ruins higher than 4? I thought they were 6 or something.... (I hate not having the FAQ/Rulebooks at work).

If there was some height built up next to the ruin and a GG could make it over, then yes, I'd believe they'd have to roll falling damage.

EDIT: Anyone wanna give me their Wave 10 now?

[Grungebob]

If you had a 4 high ruin, then the GG's could go over. But they would only take falling damage if the other side had a drop off of some kind.

[Rich10]

GG vs Melee Theoryscape

GG vs KOW (no height advantage):
KOW attack with 3 dice vs 5 defense and get 0.321 hits per attack. With 4 attacks, they get 1.284 hits. At a cost of 33.3 per GG, this costs the GG 42.8 points per turn.

GG attacks KOW with 3 dice vs 4 defense and get 0.407 hits per attack. With 3 attacks they get 1.221 hits. At a cost of 17.5 per unit, this costs the KOW 21.4 points per turn.

If the GG have height, they get 2 extra attack dice and score 35.6 points per turn vs the KOW. The KOW get only 33.3 points in their 4 person attack vs the GG (with height advantage).

This ignores the KOW's hero champion bonding (which is a big advantage for the KOW). Even without this bonding, the GG lose unless they have height. Even with height, it is a virtual coin toss.

I tried the same thing with the Legos. I assumed the Legos would get +1 defense for adjacent Legos. Without height, the GG get 19.1 points per turn. The Legos get 42.8 points per turn. If the GG have height, they get 28.7 points per turn, the Legos get 33.3 points per turn. Even without bonding, the Legos beat the GG even if the GG have height.

[padlock]

Originally Posted by Rich10

GG vs Melee Theoryscape

GG vs KOW (no height advantage):
KOW attack with 3 dice vs 5 defense and get 0.321 hits per attack. With 4 attacks, they get 1.284 hits. At a cost of 33.3 per GG, this costs the GG 42.8 points per turn.

GG attacks KOW with 3 dice vs 4 defense and get 0.407 hits per attack. With 3 attacks they get 1.221 hits. At a cost of 17.5 per unit, this costs the KOW 21.4 points per turn.

If the GG have height, they get 2 extra attack dice and score 35.6 points per turn vs the KOW. The KOW get only 33.3 points in their 4 person attack vs the GG (with height advantage).

This ignores the KOW's hero champion bonding (which is a big advantage for the KOW). Even without this bonding, the GG lose unless they have height. Even with height, it is a virtual coin toss.

That's assuming the KOW get a full 4 attacks in each turn, which, due to attrition, seems fairly unlikely. The GG are however, more likely to get their full attacks in for a couple of reasons:

1. Their higher defense means each figure sticks around longer
2. The special move which allows them to move more reinforcements in from the back

[Obsidian]

Originally Posted by padlock

That's assuming the KOW get a full 4 attacks in each turn, which, due to attrition, seems fairly unlikely. The GG are however, more likely to get their full attacks in for a couple of reasons:

1. Their higher defense means each figure sticks around longer
2. The special move which allows them to move more reinforcements in from the back

3. They have a ranged attack option.

Depending on the map, you could send one GG to engage the lead knights and attack from range with the other two GG's. The knights then must either risk disengagement or only have 1 possible kill for that turn. This limits the number of attacks for the knights substantially.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by padlock

That's assuming the KOW get a full 4 attacks in each turn, which, due to attrition, seems fairly unlikely. The GG are however, more likely to get their full attacks in for a couple of reasons:

1. Their higher defense means each figure sticks around longer
2. The special move which allows them to move more reinforcements in from the back

Yep, theoryscape often leaves out what happens when the figures actually die. The GG's seem better at holding a position. But this is theoryscape too. Heh.

[Einar's puppy]

In two games I've played, the GG's are a PAIN to kill. 5 defense is hard to kill. 6 Defense because of nearly constant height is tough to beat. 8 defense with raelin...that's just mean.

[Obsidian]

Originally Posted by Einar's puppy

In two games I've played, the GG's are a PAIN to kill. 5 defense is hard to kill. 6 Defense because of nearly constant height is tough to beat. 8 defense with raelin...that's just mean.

These guys may bring out Braxus more. Great.