The Book of Lady Shiva

[IAmBatman]

Looking forward to updates on where you go with Leopard Blow.

[Griffin]

I don't mind taking my time here to get her right. She needs to be balanced of course, but she really needs to be deadly as well, and Unique Heroes should be afraid of her.

[IAmBatman]

Question on this ...

LEOPARD BLOW SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
If you roll a skull on every die, the defending figure is destroyed unless it has the Super Strength special power. A figure without the Master Martial Artist or Close Combat Expert special power rolls 2 fewer defense dice against this special attack.

If Shiva rolls all skulls, would the defending figure still roll defense dice before being removed (thinking of situations with Counter Strike type powers) or would the auto destruction take effect immediately and remove the figure from the battlefield before it could roll defense?

Also, how would the current version of the power interact with someone like MODOK and his PSIONIC FORCEFIELD X?

PSIONIC FORCEFIELD X
Once per round, if M.O.D.O.K. is attacked and at least one skull is rolled, you may choose to reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card. After revealing an "X" Order Marker, the opponent's turn immediately ends, and M.O.D.O.K. receives no wounds.

He doesn't technically "receive wounds" if she hits all skulls, he's just automatically destroyed ... so I'm assuming that if she rolled all skulls he could reveal the "X" marker, then be automatically destroyed, then Shiva's turn would immediately end with M.O.D.O.K. taking no wounds (but being destroyed) ... same with Prof X and Psychic Defense X. Thematically super wonky (and a great way to take out M.O.D.O.K.'s 360 points since he has no SS - he's the highest costing figure without it, since Nega-Bands give it to Mar-Vell), but I'm pretty sure that's how it'd work mechanically.

Another potential area for confusion (or at least in need of a close reading) is Scarlet Witch (no SS at 285) with her:

HEX-SPHERE DISTURBANCE 5
After an opponent rolls attack dice against Scarlet Witch, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or higher, your opponent must re-roll all attack dice that show skulls. Hex-Sphere Disturbance can only be used once for each attack.

Would she get a chance to use this power or be immediately destroyed once the three skulls were rolled? I'm not sure.

Anyway, just a few areas of potential muddiness I was thinking of. I'm sure they can all be figured out, but I'm still in favor of the "at least one wound" requirement that would make it clear how all of these things work and feel more thematic to me without sacrificing much too much of her awesomeness, IMO.

[Griffin]

If you want to go in that direction of having to inflict a wound, the current attack of 3 may not be enough for her, and the current reduction of defense by 2 is probably too much....

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Griffin

If you want to go in that direction of having to inflict a wound, the current attack of 3 may not be enough for her, and the current reduction of defense by 2 is probably too much....

It kinda seems like you're contradicting yourself there ... ?

I think it can't go over 3 attack if you want the "all skulls rolled" to trigger often enough, but I also think the combination of 3 attack and subtracting 2 defense (which is almost like having an invisible 4th attack die) will still allow her to get plenty of wounds against non-SS figures when she hits 3 skulls. If it doesn't, adjustments will need to be made, sure, but it just seems like the interpretation (thematically and mechanically both) is a lot cleaner with the
"one or more wounds" route.

I could actually see increasing the amount of dice subtracted from the defender before upping the attack roll.

[Griffin]

I'm not contradicting myself, just demonstrating how schizophrenic the current direction is.

For our work on this design to evolve to a polished state, I think you should drop the assumption that I have a favored dog in the fight - I don't. I am open to ideas and I am willing to try out whatever. The only thing I am really concerned with is ensuring that whatever we come up with works well for the character and the mechanics work well for the game. Right now though, I am a bit like a lost puppy here. :Puppyeyes:

[Griffin]

What about this:

LEOPARD BLOW SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
When a figure that does not have the Super Strength special power receives 2 or more wounds from this special attack, it is destroyed. A figure without the Master Martial Artist or Close Combat Expert special power rolls 2 fewer defense dice against this special attack.

[IAmBatman]

I'm not assuming anything, except that the power isn't "set." What I am doing is letting you know why I think you should favor one direction over another (in my opinion, of course) due to undesirable circumstances I believe my favored position would allow us to avoid. I'm confident that when you get her on the battlefield and try different options, though, you'll agree (or that if you don't, you'll have very good reason for not and I'll likely be switching my position). I just wanted to offer some food for thought on potentially wonky or confusing power combinations.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Griffin

What about this:

LEOPARD BLOW SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
When a figure that does not have the Super Strength special power receives 2 or more wounds from this special attack, it is destroyed. A figure without the Master Martial Artist or Close Combat Expert special power rolls 2 fewer defense dice against this special attack.

Sure, that could work too. I think any version that includes a requirement for wounds takes care of my concerns (which are about the mechanically and thematically wonky things that occur if a figure should be able to "dodge" an attack, but can't).

[Griffin]

OK, but Flash can't dodge Green Arrow's Skill Shot on a roll of 20.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Griffin

OK, but Flash can't dodge Green Arrow's Skill Shot on a roll of 20.

M.O.D.O.K., Professor X, Spider-Man, and Batman can. This isn't a "Flash" issue. It's bigger than that.

[Griffin]

What if I took that last version and combined it with your defense reduction but upped the requirement to 3 wounds?

LEOPARD BLOW SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
A figure without the Master Martial Artist or Close Combat Expert special power rolls 3 fewer defense dice against this special attack. When a figure that does not have the Super Strength special power receives 3 wounds from this special attack, it is destroyed.