Evolution and Creation

[gorthan313]

Originally Posted by hexplex?

As designer myself, I would argue that… (hold on to your britches)

Design = Evolution

Anything that is actually designed is never finished on the first draft, by definition.

After all wouldn't the greatest design be a design capable of adapting/evolving to it's own needs and environment?

1. The logic behind your definition of design escapes me at the moment.
2. If you were an all-powerful God, you could finish the thing that you were designing on the first draft.
3. How would certain life forms survive without all of their parts at the beginning of their life?

[braveheart101]

Originally Posted by ollie

I'm afraid I'm not sufficiently conversant with the gospels to know what they say about creation. How do you believe life on Earth came about?

I briefly skimmed that article and pulled out the parts relating to math (where I do have specialist knowledge). The author does not understand either Godel's Theorem or imaginary numbers. This doesn't fill me with confidence about the rest of the article.

Even if these two theories are scoffed at and replaced by superior explanations, very rarely (ever?) in science is a discredited theory replaced with an earlier already-disproven theory. I don't see any reason to expect anything other than refinement to those two theories, but new evidence may come in. That new evidence will not point to intelligent design.

Just you wait, just you wait. In the meantime, try reading "the case for christ" by Lee Strobel. Its very good, and its written by a creation skeptic.

Also, I believe that Darwin was right about the "immutability of the species" being wrong.

[Nukatha]

Nice, I should have thought of posting that argument before. By using that order, it really shows their mutual incompatibility.

Anyways, I'd just like to bring up a question.

How can time begin?

[gorthan313]

Originally Posted by ollie

I'm afraid I'm not sufficiently conversant with the gospels to know what they say about creation. How do you believe life on Earth came about?

What I often find saddening about many children's books about the Garden of Eden is that they have pictures of ALL of the animals IN THE FORMS THAT WE SEE THEM IN TODAY in the Garden. That's not what I believe. We know that there are variations within an animal species, as ABOMINATION said. I believe that God created at least two of each animal species in the Garden. Then, after Noah's Flood, when the animals spread out from the Ark, they changed to match the new environments that moved into.

[johnny139]

Originally Posted by Nukatha

Anyways, I'd just like to bring up a question.

How can time begin?

And, since this is a thread about questions, I'd like to counter that with something that's always bugged me.

...what the heck IS time!?

I'm sure one of you smart people could enlighten me to possible explanations and such.

[ABOMINATION]

n/a

[hexplex?]

Originally Posted by gorthan313

1. The logic behind your definition of design escapes me at the moment.
2. If you were an all-powerful God, you could finish the thing that you were designing on the first draft.
3. How would certain life forms survive without all of their parts at the beginning of their life?

1. The logic behind your definition of design escapes me at the moment.

Start with an idea, add everything it needs to become functional, take-a-way all that is not need to remain functional. Periodically review idea and evaluate functionality, adapt if necessary.

2. If you were an all-powerful God, you could finish the thing that you were designing on the first draft.

I don't know, could I?

*Edit you just posted this:
I believe that God created at least two of each animal species in the Garden. Then, after Noah's Flood, when the animals spread out from the Ark, they changed to match the new environments that moved into.

3. How would certain life forms survive without all of their parts at the beginning of their life?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that parts appear mid-life. What is being said is that over the existence of a species it will at different times and speeds adapt to it's surroundings.

[hexplex?]

Originally Posted by johnny139

...what the heck IS time!?

A leash.

[Nukatha]

1 dimensional object: line

Take the line, set a line parallel to it, then connect the corresponding endpoints of the lines at right angles to each other to get a

2 dimensional object: square

Take the square, set a congruent square on a parallel plane to it, then connect the corresponding corners of the squares to each other via lines at right angles to the planes to get a

3 dimensional object: cube

Take the cube, set a congruent cube on a parallel space to it, then connect the corresponding corners of the cubes to each other via lines at right angles to the spaces to get a

4 dimensional object: hypercube

The direction is which you must connect the two cubes by is what we perceive as time. Likewise, a hypothetical 2-dimensional being would perceive the 3rd dimension as time, and a 4 dimensional being would perceive the 5th dimension as time. This same fourth dimensional being could move in what we consider time just as easily as we move in our beloved 3 dimensional space.

Anyways, time can be viewed as a direction that the universe is moving through at a speed uncontrolled by its inhabitants. Its like being in a car, with no steering wheel, no brakes, no accelerator, and having all your windows painted black, except the back one, which is tinted to the point where you can still only just barely see through it.

Yes time can be affected by moving at extremely high speeds.

In addition I would like to make the point that everything is the same. Its just lumped together in weird ways.

[gorthan313]

Originally Posted by hexplex?

1. The logic behind your definition of design escapes me at the moment.

Start with an idea, add everything it needs to become functional, take-a-way all that is not need to remain functional. Periodically review idea and evaluate functionality, adapt if necessary.

*Edit you just posted this:
I believe that God created at least two of each animal species in the Garden. Then, after Noah's Flood, when the animals spread out from the Ark, they changed to match the new environments that moved into.

2. If you were an all-powerful God, you could finish the thing that you were designing on the first draft.

I don't know, could I? I guess if you say so, you seen you know/say a lot about the subject.

3. How would certain life forms survive without all of their parts at the beginning of their life?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that parts appear mid-life. What is being said is that over the existence of a species it will at different times and speeds adapt to it's surroundings.

If all life did come from an amoeba, did the amoeba have the genes for all of the various animal characteristics that we see in our world today(i.e, the giraffe's neck, the elephant's trunk, and the fish's ability to swim)? If it did, then, why didn't the giraffe gain the ability to fly? Or why didn't the elephant get the ability to swim?

[hexplex?]

Originally Posted by gorthan313

If all life did come from an amoeba, did the amoeba have the genes for all of the various animal characteristics that we see in our world today(i.e, the giraffe's neck, the elephant's trunk, and the fish's ability to swim)? If it did, then, why didn't the giraffe gain the ability to fly? Or why didn't the elephant get the ability to swim?

All life on Earth shares some DNA.

The giraffe doesn't need to fly (it's got the neck) and elephants can swim.

*Edit I don't recall mentioning amoebas. You said that Gods design couldn't evolve. I say, Gods design is always evolving.

[gorthan313]

Originally Posted by hexplex?

All life on Earth shares some DNA.

The giraffe doesn't need to fly (it's got the neck) and elephants can swim.

*Edit I don't recall mentioning amoebas. You said that Gods design couldn't evolve. I say, Gods design is always evolving.

God's design is always evolving through microevolution. Not through macroevolution. If all life forms evolved from one source, then, wouldn't the source contain all of that DNA? And, i know that the giraffe got the neck, but, why didn't the giraffe get flying, and something else get the long neck?