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  #1369  
Old September 10th, 2022, 12:39 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

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Originally Posted by gbizzy View Post
Wait what news thread said something about terrain previews next week? I haven't seen that anywhere
This news thread. Specifically, this post.
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  #1370  
Old September 10th, 2022, 09:02 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

This is neat.

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  #1371  
Old September 10th, 2022, 09:12 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

Terrain previews would be great! I'm also interested in seeing any Common figures with available concept art.

As a very late non-sequitur, I seem to remember a request for community opinions on Valkrill. There's enough design space for multiple evil Valkyries, so Valkrill shouldn't be difficult to adapt into the classic canon. Moreover, I've wondered what his forces would be like without D&D units since Heroscape ended; this is a perfect opportunity for an official take on his army composition.
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  #1372  
Old September 10th, 2022, 09:33 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight View Post
I’ve never actually gone through the CV3 stuff though I have always heard it was good. Old habit, we used to stay out of the customs sections so that we couldn’t be accused of swiping ideas. I’ve just always maintained that posture in the hopes that something like this would come along.
Oh you’re totally robbing yourself of a pretty valuable body of work. I have spent much time in those threads, even posting occasionally. The big draw for me is watching their process, evaluating the quality and presentation of the designs, and witnessing the power of creative exchange unbridled by budgets and sales forecasts.

“Heroscapers is too old for that crap.”
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  #1373  
Old September 10th, 2022, 09:34 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

Nothing in this world is quite as much fun as collaborating on a Heroscape card.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #1374  
Old September 10th, 2022, 10:37 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

Agreed, Bats and GB! I had a lot of fun as a playtester for C3V and sometimes making suggestions about designs.

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  #1375  
Old September 11th, 2022, 12:54 AM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majora's Incarnation View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Roshi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majora's Incarnation View Post
I didn't expect to see some of the commentary that preceded earlier on this site, little disappointed to read it, if I am entirely honest.
How so?
Not to restart the debate but the words "woke" and "mob" have no place in a design discussion, reading that is upsetting when this whole thread was supposed to be an exciting place for the current updates.
I see what you're saying because people need to maintain a respect for other people's perspectives without strawmanning them.
I think there should still be a place for people to describe their frustration if it relates to the game. If the discussion veers towards criticizing cultural elements themselves without it pertaining to how Heroscape is designed, then that's innapropriate for the nature of this thread.
The people who explain what they don't like to see in games, such as the two women in the video, have an impact on what is and isn't implemented. We already see that happening though the caution that the developers for Heroscape have expressed. Its only fair for someone with a differing perspective to have their say as well, because that too might impact what Hasbro puts in the game.
Why should the critics of historical units be enabled to impact game design, but those who are more lenient with game contents shouldn't?
The developers should be aware of what potential buyers think, complementary or critical, and correct or incorrect.

What bothers me is people who haven't played Heroscape are having an impact on the game through their complaints about other games, whereas the actual players, as far as I've seen, have expressed a desire for historical units. Yet Hasbro will be stepping on eggshells to not upset them; so I think it's appropriate for Hasbro to know that certain Heroscape players will also be upset by the exclusion of historical units that ten or more years ago would have been an obvious inclusion.
No one has to accept new Heroscape just because it's Heroscape. And they can choose to not support it if they feel it has gone down the wrong path. Now, is anyone here calling for the cancelation of Heroscape because they're favorite historical character isn't included? No. However, will there be people that aren't even dedicated Heroscape players calling for the complete cancelation of Heroscape because XYZ historical figure was added? Its certainly realistic that would happen, hence the heavier emphasis on sci-fi and fantasy. If game companies have already opened packaged games to swap out content that has offended people for having been included, will Hasbro open packaged games to add in infantry from an old empire when Heroscape fans complain about their exclusion? Absolutely not, and the reason is that even if we complained about that, it wouldn't be with the threat the we want Heroscape canceled or that the developers are prejudiced. I think that disparity between how the two sides could potentially respond is important to take note of.

With that being said, we should be careful not to be insulting to those who are concerned about sensitive content. It makes sense to me that there are units that would be bad to include. Adding SS soldiers, even for Utgar, would clearly be distasteful and I don't think it ends there. As someone else pointed out earlier, I think it would be wise to avoid anything later than the 19th century to avoid figures whose actions have impacts that are still seen today. I used to think it would be fun to add in modern US marines, but now I can see how that would be problematic to some people so I'm fine with their exclusion.
The fundamental problem is that warfare itself is going to always entail wrong, oppressive, and tyrannical actions, because if both sides were just and empathetic they wouldn't be solving their conflict through killing each other, so there's always going to be atleast one bad guy. This fundamental problem is going to haunt any design choice that includes people from an actual event that happened, because you're either saying "We can add them because they were the good guys in the war" or "We can add them because their actions were primarily neutral" or "We can add them because what they did wrong is irrelevant to the game we're making" to which all choices will have critics. There are still people in Russia who think Stalin was a great leader, so people's opinions about history go in every direction which the developers will have to keep in mind.

Overall, any discussion here should pertain to the development of the game. And if something negative is said it shouldn't be pointlessly destructive or single-minded.
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  #1376  
Old September 11th, 2022, 01:21 AM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

It would pain me if a game that I helped to design was upsetting to a person. And I would not choose to sit in judgment on whether another person, playing a game that I helped to design, had a good reason for being upset.

I would, as Master Roshi wisely suggests, move on from this discussion.

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
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  #1377  
Old September 11th, 2022, 07:24 AM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

With factual history, as with fantasy and horror literature, "you pays yer money and takes yer choice." I'm glad to see it when our designers are being sensitive without being censoring, as reasonably as they can. Scape seems to be moving toward a more modular presentation of new product, so one can simply not purchase what they don't like, or even find offensive. There will continue to be varying reactions to new characters, official or not, and some will see more table time than others.

I'm surprised to learn that there are Scapers who play without our customs, and are therefore leaving out what has by now become half of the game! As someone who, along with Taeblewalker upthread, has made a couple of accepted contributions to a couple of custom cards through playtesting, has a pal who was in the Inner Circle of C3V (Sherman Davies) and so know a little about their process, and has a friend who successfully submitted a character to SOV (Kolakoski), I've enjoyed participating to a degree, and just playing with the custom stuff. We also play with C3G, our own customs, and those of others onsite.

Heroscape is a fantastically robust platform for our tinkerings, whether official or not. To have new official stuff coming is wonderful, even if They've Stolen Raelin's Brain! (Coming Soon To A theater Near You). And if there are a some corner cases where they supersede or don't work with a few customs, so what? Don't use them together.

Our group rotates who gets to design each custom scenario for our monthly games. We each have our own preferences and favorites, but we all agree to play everyone's products. So we get to see all kinds of creativity in scenario design, maps, custom characters, etc., as well as use those we find onsite.

Glory to all who help create a larger menu of characters and other elements for our wonderful game!

Last edited by chas; September 11th, 2022 at 07:47 AM.
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  #1378  
Old September 11th, 2022, 09:05 AM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Nothing in this world is quite as much fun as collaborating on a Heroscape card.
If there is, I haven’t found it yet.
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  #1379  
Old September 11th, 2022, 02:27 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

For the past ten years, I've checked the site less and less, usually just for a rules clarification or to see what's new with C3V/SOV. Then, yesterday, I'm visiting with old friends after a loved one's memorial service and a buddy tells me THIS?!?

I mean, I found out immediately after the service, so I'm glad we were already in the car - my reaction would have been entirely inappropriate in front of the JW assembly hall!

I know I'm late to the party, but IT'S BACK!!!!!!!!!

WORST. PALADIN. EVER.

Overall Tourney Record: ....I don't even remember anymore!
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  #1380  
Old September 11th, 2022, 02:55 PM
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Re: Heroscape 2nd Edition is here!

One thing I don't get: If they're trying to keep costs down and that's why they're going unpainted, then why are they also trying to produce the most detailed minis on the market and seemingly hired every famous mini sculptor in the world to pitch in? Surely that has to be very expensive too.

I would still rather have minis with basic sculpts and paint jobs like we used to get, even if the paint quality wasn't as high.
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