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  #97  
Old July 19th, 2021, 04:13 PM
AMIS AMIS is offline
 
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

I like the gobble and graft concept but IMHO that alone warrants a drop in HP to 6 or 7. This guy is going to be difficult to drop at the best of times but with the regeneration, all it needs is to move into a group of squadies and it'll be more like a HP equivalent of 10 or 12. Of course I could always be way off and really play-testing would help you out with that.
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  #98  
Old August 12th, 2021, 07:26 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)



Some thoughts on a possible redesign. Theme escapes me, especially how others perceive it but I wouldn't be opposed to playing on the size and brute appearance of the figure instead of explaining how it grafts things onto itself.

This version would drop the affiliation as a troll, classify it as a Horror (seems like a good way to communication abomination or monster beyond the norm). Not sure what planet to stick it on but that's something to be figured out later, there are a few options. This is definitely a simple design, let me know if you guys feel anything for or against it.

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  #99  
Old August 12th, 2021, 08:10 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

I would say "each figure" rather than "a figure."

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  #100  
Old August 12th, 2021, 08:12 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

Good catch on wording, thanks.

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  #101  
Old August 12th, 2021, 08:51 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

I actually liked the kill counter alot.

Increasing attacks for wounds like Krugs increasing attack is fine but doesn't change playstyle. Increasing number of attack for kills makes opponents fearful of swarming too early and may encourage players to send in heroes rather than commons to tie him down.

I wouldnt have the multiple attack limitation, instead I would suggest each attack rolls fewer dice like Josie. To encourage opponents to tie him down you could riff of pel or martuka


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  #102  
Old August 12th, 2021, 09:00 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

Oh, well that's a relief! Hard to sort what detail people are feeling or not sometimes. I think finding the correct way to name it is probably the more important issue. If I went the way of Kill = Marker = another attack, it could fit quite a few things. All of them are easily interpreted from the mini.

Grafting to receive extra arms
Endless Hunger type of monster (all the extra mouths)
Growing Rage or lust for battle

The idea of making the attack go lower and lower each time is pretty interesting, I feel like it would mean his initial attack has to start pretty high otherwise it won't mean much. Rollin 1 or 2 die usually doesn't feel worthwhile when I've done it unless I'm rolling a bunch of pings for my arrow gruts.

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  #103  
Old August 12th, 2021, 09:03 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

this is looking like a pretty good, simple version. I think it's headed in the right directino.
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  #104  
Old August 13th, 2021, 02:54 AM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

The Dire Troll mini looks very D&D dire-trollish to me, so I would have a difficult time with a fabricated "horror" or "mutant" kind of story, or any other story that tries to pretend this strongly troll-looking thing is not a troll.

I'm going to quote a couple of comments from the pre-SoV workshop:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
I can see the reason for multiple attacks but I'm not sure that is the central theme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
If it’s absorbing everything it kills, why do all the things it’s absorbed look exactly like each other?
When I first saw this figure I did some research and learned that (regardless of what the Dire Troll eats), it doesn't really graft everything it comes across; just other trolls. It grafts the other trolls' body parts onto existing wounds in its own body, I guess as kind of a wound-patch. So I have to agree that it doesn't make sense to "eat" a human or a dragon or a soulborg and have this result in yet another troll head or troll arm springing from its body.

It might be interesting to try giving the figure some decent general functionality, and then make the power-up function something that only works when this thing inflicts a wound on, or destroys, a literal other troll. Obviously you won't face enemy trolls in every game, but when you do there could be some big drama and a strong incentive to go hunt it down. (And there's something intriguing about a slugfest between the DT and Krug in which every new wound on Krug is powering up both combatants. Dice freaks should love that.) Naturally this could foster some interesting counter-draft potential, as well as even the possibility to put, say, a Feral Troll in your own army just so you can kick it around to power up your Dire. Probably an "up to a maximum of __ graft tokens on this card" kind of throttle would be advisable.

It wouldn't bother me for the unit to be a bit swingy, as long as it occasionally created some big drama and a memorable game. Sometimes Krug goes out with a whimper and sometimes he paints the walls with the bodies of fools, and that is part of what makes him awesome.


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  #105  
Old August 13th, 2021, 06:46 AM
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wriggz wriggz is offline
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Oh, well that's a relief! Hard to sort what detail people are feeling or not sometimes. I think finding the correct way to name it is probably the more important issue. If I went the way of Kill = Marker = another attack, it could fit quite a few things. All of them are easily interpreted from the mini.

Grafting to receive extra arms
Endless Hunger type of monster (all the extra mouths)
Growing Rage or lust for battle

The idea of making the attack go lower and lower each time is pretty interesting, I feel like it would mean his initial attack has to start pretty high otherwise it won't mean much. Rollin 1 or 2 die usually doesn't feel worthwhile when I've done it unless I'm rolling a bunch of pings for my arrow gruts.
Yeah starting with one 6 attack, kill a figure, get two attacked of 6/5, kill two more figures and get four attacks of 6/5/4/3.

The play style would be interesting hunting down weak units in the first few turns then amping up to being a sold hero killer. Your oponant would need to keep commons back at first to limit damage but then go all out. However for that to work you would need to have a power that discourages disengagement like suffer double leaving engagement strikes from heros.

Ballance all the other stats to create tension would be the hardest part.

Hope you find something exciting for you and whichever direction you choose I'm glad you took feedback to tighten the design.


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  #106  
Old August 13th, 2021, 01:05 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)



Got some refinement work done today. Built off this increasing attack number in a similar way to Uzog, which references the collection of skulls on his belt for the miniature.

Making customs that push boundaries and defy conventions! Every time that I post a custom that causes a ton of discussion I consider that a win.

Last edited by Shiftrex; August 13th, 2021 at 02:11 PM.
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  #107  
Old August 13th, 2021, 07:23 PM
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

For Divided Attention, if the number of Skull Markers and/or engagements changes during his multiple attacks, I'm assuming you re-evaluate the benefit and restriction. Simplest example: 3 Skull Markers and 2 engaged enemies. First attack destroys one enemy. Now there are 4 Skull Markers and 1 engaged enemy, so at this point he has three remaining attacks and can perform them all against that last enemy.

Assuming that was correct, below are my recommendations for Scapey wording conventions. After the suggestions I will show which existing powers my research turned up as good precedents.
BERSERKER RAMPAGE
Each time Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure with a normal attack, place a Skull Marker on this Army Card. Fo-To-Ki-Ro may attack 1 additional time for each Skull Marker on this Army Card. On his second and later attacks, subtract 1 from Fo-To-Ki-Ro's Attack value for each time he has previously attacked this turn.

DIVIDED ATTENTION
When attacking with Fo-To-Ki-Ro, if he is engaged with at least 2 figures, he cannot attack the same figure more than once per turn.
Each time ____ destroys a figure with a normal attack — Sanguine Sword (Viceron)

place — (too many to list)

second attack — Quick Shot (Josie Whistlestop), Eagle Claw (Zhen Yuan)

Attack value — Indomitable (Frost Giant, Shieldsmiths), Poison Cloud (Mezzodemons), Wild Strategic Bonding (Dreadguls), Quick Shot (Josie), Blood Hunger (Preyblood), Shadow Hunting (Shadow Hound)

previously — Braced Spear (Cathars), Mind Shackle (Kee-Mo-Shi, Ne-Gok-Sa)

When attacking with __, if __ is engaged with at least __ <figures> — Mob Attack (Goblin Cutters), Flanking (Tomb Skeletons)

cannot attack the same figure more than once per turn — Feral Rage (Quasatch), Dual Strike (Red Mantis, Varkaanan Darkclaws), Fledgling Ice Shards Special Attack (White wyrm), Ninjutsu Barrage Special Attack (Kumiko), Furious Charge Special Attack (Asterios), Wave of Flame (Avernus). Note that instead of "per" turn a few of these use a variation (this turn or on a single turn), and a few others omit the timing phrase altogether. I think it's wise to include it for clarity's sake, and "per turn" is the most concise version as well as the one that's been used the most (twice as often as any of the other variations).


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Last edited by Just_a_Bill; August 13th, 2021 at 09:04 PM. Reason: spelling; organization
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  #108  
Old August 13th, 2021, 08:33 PM
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wriggz wriggz is offline
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Re: Shiftrex Customs (7/2/21... FO-TO-KI-RO Updates)

That is an amazing post from @Just_a_Bill . Scaping up a powers lingo can be tough.


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