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HoME Customs A place for Heroes of Middle Earth Customs |
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#265
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
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#266
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
IS suggested that we shelve Gandalf for a while.
Personally, I'm happy with the following version (note that the small changes from my last playtest version don't affect the playtest results): Quote:
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#267
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
Alternatively, we could finalize the version we've extensively playtested:
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Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#268
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
If we finalize Gandalf completely now, we might regret it later, when the power level of the Fellowship could be out of step with its leader. I'm fine with getting to middle ground and leaving him in stasis (with the possibility of small tweaks later) until we've got a better idea of what our Fellowship will look like.
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#269
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
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In retrospect starting with Gandalf was probably a bad idea. |
#270
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
There are 3 proposed versions of Gandalf. I'd like to consider the pros and cons of each version:
1) Original Version at 150 points Pros This is what we playtested. Cons Gandalf doesn't have as much firepower against squads. Little board control (heroes want to stay clumped together). 2) Stronger Version +1 Attack for Blazing Strike (4 Attack) Heroes moving after Gandalf uses Blazing Strike do not have to end up adjacent to him. Pros More firepower versus squads. Fear factor because of his Blazing Strike potential. More board control (since heroes can scatter after Blazing Strike). Cons Higher cost means less support for Gandalf. 3) Lower Points Version -1 to Life (Life 6) Move 4 heroes at the end of your turn instead of 3. Heroes moving at the end of your turn must end up within 3 spaces of Gandalf. Pros Moving more heroes allows you to keep support figures nearby. More board control than the original version. Cons Gandalf doesn't have as much firepower against squads. Less board control. Heroes want to stay close together. Please feel free to add to these pros and cons. I just wanted to get the ball rolling and stimulate ideas. Notice that the proposed ideas are really not that different from each other. In fact, in many games, the differences probably wouldn't have affected Gandalf's play. For example, increasing Blazing Strike to 4 didn't help much in at least one of my playtests because Gandalf's main role was to move the army forward as a unit. Once they got into place, the other heroes did all of the attacking. Of course, there will still be games where the small changes will tip the outcome. |
#271
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
I'm more inclined towards 3. Higher board control for the heroes, and if his points go down, that leaves more room for companions who can pack a punch to pick up the offensive slack.
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#272
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
Do you really want a Gandalf with 6 Life and 3 Defence? Seriously? A Gandalf with less survivability than a knight champion? He is not that paper thin. He's seriously powerful - none of the versions I've seen seem powerful enough to me.
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#273
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
6/3 life/defense does worry me, Lazy Orang; poor survivability is probably what worries me most about this design. But we're trying to reach a compromise here, which we can then (hopefully) run alongside a Fellowship not completely incapable of defending themselves.
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#274
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
Needless to say, I prefer 1, then 3. 1 has already been thoroughly playtested and it's what we originally designed. I'd rather not see us have to run even more Gandalf playtests.
We're not designing comic book heroes here, LazyO. 6 Life and 3 Defense is plenty tough for a ranged hero in Valhalla--far from paper-thin. Being nearly as tough as a Knight Champion does not make one a weakling in Valhalla. "So-and-so is really powerful in their homeworld so they should be extra powerful in Valhalla" is how power creep happens. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#275
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
I realise it's not fr Superheroes, I just have trouble seeing Gandalf being thematic when he's easier to kill than a knight champion - IMO, he thematically needs to be harder to kill. I'd go for 7 life 4 defence, honestly - his points could account for it. That's around dragon range, which is where I think Gandalf should be. Honestly, Gandalf could probably have crushed any one of the Fellowship on his own, so why should he be easier to kill than Gilbert? However, I probably won't be using this guy anyway, simply as I have my own Gandalf the Grey that I'm happy with and is designed for C3G (which I play more often than Classic) so I'll but out now.
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#276
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread
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- Raelin (RotV) - Agent Skahen - Kaemon Awa - Tandros Kreel - Siege In a few of the wins, there was a special combo: - Syvarris and Kyntela Gwyn I would also add: - Captain America - Iron Man (he hasn't been in any playtests, but in theory he should be a good match) While lowering Gandalf's points will allow more heroes or squads in Gandalf's army, as I mentioned before it only helps if the added squads or heroes fit well with Gandalf's play style. 1) Raelin fits in well, because she boosts everyone's Defense. She won't get many order markers. (Ana can also fill in this role.) 2) Tandros, Siege, and Kaemon can act as screens and take damage for weaker figures. In that role, they won't get many order markers. 3) Skahen, Kaemon, and Captain America have multiple attacks and will get most of the order markers for attacking. Adding more defensive figures (to keep Skahen, Kaemon, or CA alive) will help the army, as long as they don't take many order markers. Adding in a single attacking hero won't help them much--he or she just won't get many order markers. Adding in an attacking squad won't help until endgame (after board control is lost), since they won't get any order markers. On the other hand, Gandalf is going to get some order markers anyways, just to keep the heroes moving together. Increasing his attack or special attack, even at the cost of a higher point value, then, is a direct benefit. These are things to consider when we try to decide Gandalf's stats and cost. |
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