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  #25  
Old May 2nd, 2017, 05:48 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

I started prepping for some tests here and thought this info might be useful to other testers. I'm sure I missed some so just let me know who I missed and I can add them to the list. I left out the other MD figures on purpose, but they too can deal multiple W's to another MD figure with a normal attack. I'm planning on running a couple of small tests with a MD figure vs. one or more of these figures to get an idea of it's best case scenario value outside of Mordo.

Figures with multiple normal attacks that can lead to multiple W's per OM on a MD figure:

Azrael (170) - Flaming Blades
Baron Zemo (200) - Master Swordplay
Black Bat (200) - Fist of Fury
Black Canary (190) - Fist of Fury
Bug (200) - Combat Dexterity
Cable (275) - Double Attack
Chun-Li (150) - Spinning Bird Kick
Deadpool (285) - Double Attack
Deadshot (150) - Finish the Job
Doctor Octopus (215) - Telescopic Tentacles 4
Donatello (150) - Bo Staff
Fandral (280) - Swordplay
Fantomex (260) - Double Attack
Hit-Girl (135) - Combat Dexterity
The Hood (180) - Double Attack
Iron Man (240) - Double Attack
Iron Patriot (290) - Double Attack
Ka-Zar (170) - Big Game Tracker
Katana (190) - Bladerunner
Kraven (200) - Big Game Tracker
Leonardo (210) - Double Attack
Marrow (220) - Bone Shards
Mister Zsasz (100) - Kill Count
Omega Red (300) - Telescopic Tentacles 2
Piledriver (190) - Pounding Fists
Punisher (180) - Assault Rifle
Raphael (170) - The Wrath of Raph
Red Robin (160) - Bo Staff
Shang-Chi (230) - Master of Kung-Fu
Sharon Carter (90) - Double Attack
Solomon Kane (160) - Master Swordplay
Starfire (210) - Protective Fury
Super-Skrull (280) - Furious Claws
Swordsman (160) - Swordplay
Tigra (170) - Berserker Rage 3
Tomoe Gozan (170) - Double Attack
Weapon X (230) - Fresh Adamantium Injection
Wizard (140) - Power Gloves
Wolverine (280) - Berserker Rage 3
Wonder Woman II (370) - Amazon Fury
X-23 (220) - Scent Triggered Frenzy

Figures that can deal more than 1W to a MD figure with a normal attack:

Azrael (170) - Flaming Blades
Batwoman (180) - Surgical Strike
Black Knight (150) - Ebony Blade
Black Widow (170) - Widow's Bite
Hush (220) - Surgical Strike
Scandal Savage (200) - Lamentation Blades
Scourge of the Underworld (170) - Justice is Served!
Wonder Woman II (370) - Sword of Hepheastus

I'm seeing several Vigilantes so I might run an army with a couple of them vs. a MD team.

Last edited by Yodaking; May 2nd, 2017 at 08:03 PM.
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  #26  
Old May 2nd, 2017, 07:22 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

Don't forget the Crow.

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  #27  
Old May 2nd, 2017, 07:28 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

I did forget about the Crow, but since he is still being reevaled I'll continue to leave him off the list since this was just a reference for some current testing.
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  #28  
Old May 2nd, 2017, 07:34 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

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Don't forget the Crow.
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  #29  
Old May 2nd, 2017, 07:46 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

In all seriousness, it's a nice list to have. I maintain a table of figures that synergize well with Star-Lord, and it contains all the figures you included in that first section (except Iron Patriot of course).

In terms of straight multiple normal attacks in a single turn I think you caught just about everyone; Solomon Kane was the only other one I noticed that was in my table (for that reason) and not on your list. (X-23 too, kind of, 25% of the time?)

EDIT: Also Blade, and Speedball, sort of.

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  #30  
Old May 2nd, 2017, 08:02 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

That is a bit of a relief, I was sure I had missed several cards that I don't often use. Solomon Kane is in there already and I'll add in X-23. I feel like I'm missing a few options from the second list too but some of the ones I was thinking about ended up being SA's so perhaps I got them all.
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  #31  
Old May 2nd, 2017, 08:12 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

Yeah, I can't really help you on that second part of the list (I don't track those in my Star-Lord chart) but I'm not sure that part of the list is really all that relevant, anyway. The first part is the list of figures that are nerfed extra-hard by Mesmerize, which is what I thought you were driving at.

Other figures of interest would be figures that really want to get at least one wound, or otherwise benefit from rolling more attack dice. Red Skull, Miles Morales, Shocker, Blink, Morbius, probably some others. (EDIT: MODOK)

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  #32  
Old May 3rd, 2017, 12:41 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Vote for DR Playtesting)

I agree the first list is the primary list, the second list just represents a good back up option since preventing 2W is better than 1W. You draft the spell planning on using it to shut down the Punisher, but then he never targets the MD figure with his first shot and falls early. Batwoman or Black Widow are still in your opponents army though and become the remaining best option for spell use. Drafting one of each into the opposing army for testing purposes seemed like a good idea but then after seeing the first list I ended up making up 3 test armies that each featured 2 off the first list. Should then hopefully be able to cast the spell when someone off the first list is attacking in all 3 tests. I'm going to try to get them knocked out in the next couple of days.
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  #33  
Old May 3rd, 2017, 08:37 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

This Passes On Time.


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  #34  
Old May 5th, 2017, 09:01 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

NAME OF THE TESTED UNITS (Mesmerise Spell & Glyph of ******* ***** *******)
Army Test 1
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? A narrow win for Strange seems to indicate you are in the right ballpark.
Map: Death Star Throne Room w/Bacta Tank replaced by glyph of ******* ***** *******
Units: Dr. Strange, Wong, Mesmerize@25, Final Ruin, Lightning Bolt x2, Mystic Flames x1 (440) vs. Azrael, Robin (Tim), Black Knight (440)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: So when I drafted Black Knight I was thinking he would be a good one to block with the spell, but then after reading his powers and the spell text more closely I discovered that once he declares an adj. attack on the MD figure, their MD power is negated and thus they canít cast any spells. Not that it mattered at all in this game as Black Knight couldnít roll and shields and died without ever making an attack. Strange managed to finish off Azrael with some help from the Final Ruin spell. Robin struggled to put another W on Strange with his normal attack so he bat grappled over to the glyph, Strange decided to retreat out of his range and threw a couple of lightning bolts at him to no effect. Strange spend two rounds trying to finish off Robin after that and couldnít finish him off, I think the most skulls he rolled in those 6 attacks were 2 several times and Robin blocked them each time. Robin couldnít W Strange either though, even though he rolled 3 skulls on 3 dice twice. Strange finally ends it though.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 2
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? It is certainly a valuable tool when facing 3 attacks of 6, Iíd say best case scenario that 25 points doesnít feel too bad.
Map: Death Star Throne Room w/Bacta Tank replaced by glyph of ******* ***** *******
Units: Dr. Fate, Atom, Mesmerize@25, Lightning Bolt (370) vs. Bug, Tigra (370)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Fate grabbed the glyph right away but then Bug used some hit and run tactics to draw him out towards the steps where he was hoping to be able to grab some high ground. Fate didnít fall for this ploy though and ended up teleporting himself onto the Emperors Throne so then Bug attacks from low ground before retreating back to grab the glyph for himself. Fate then starts to attack Tigra from HG, who moves up the steps and fights back, Fate then teleports him and Atom over by Bug and the glyph. Tigra is forced to pursue on foot. Fate manages to drive Bug off the glyph and Atom then claims it, but Tigra rushes in and takes Fate down at the end of the round. Tigra then takes down Atom to end it. I should note that I could have and should have used the Lightning Bolt spell at one point but forgot about having it and then once I remembered I had it the best moves for Fate were normal attacks, either from HG on Tigra or after moving adj. to Bug.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 3
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? Silver Banshee wins this one but Iím not sure how much it had to do with the spell. Even had the spell not been played Banshee would have most likely won. Iron Man just failed to deal any damage with his repeated attacks on her and both Doc Ock & Iron Manís 6 defense didnít fare as well as Silver Bansheeís 5 def. did.
Map: Death Star Throne Room w/Bacta Tank replaced by glyph of ******* ***** *******

Units: Silver Banshee, Mesmerize @25, Final Ruin, Werewolf (455) vs. Doctor Octopus, Ironman (455)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: The Werewolf heads out on a suicide mission and manages to deal 2W to Doc Ock before going down. Iron Man tries to lure Silver Banshee into a trap but she heads in the other direction instead. She then meets Iron Man in the middle of the board, Doc Ock joins the fray and gets destroyed, Iron Man takes a LEA to move onto the steps and attacks with HG, Banshee flies over onto the steps as well for a HG att., they dance up the steps each getting to attack with HG, the dice gods favor Banshee though and Iron Man falls.



Final Thoughts: It is definitely a spell you want to have when facing 3+ attacks as it can buy you a turn relatively free from worry while you try to deal with the situation. It should be noted that the one time I reduced an attack to zero (Doc Ock) I played it as it was reduced to a minimum of 1 and Doc Ock did not manage to inflict any wound with his four attacks of 1. These small tests all featuring figures with attacks a MD figure might fear insured it was used in a premium fashion, and under those circumstances 25 seems about right. The MD teams went 2-1 in these 3 tests but would have won the last test without the spell.
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Old May 6th, 2017, 11:25 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
NAME OF THE TESTED UNITS (Mesmerise Spell & Glyph of ******* ***** *******)
Army Test 1
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? A narrow win for Strange seems to indicate you are in the right ballpark.
Map: Death Star Throne Room w/Bacta Tank replaced by glyph of ******* ***** *******
Units: Dr. Strange, Wong, Mesmerize@25, Final Ruin, Lightning Bolt x2, Mystic Flames x1 (440) vs. Azrael, Robin (Tim), Black Knight (440)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: So when I drafted Black Knight I was thinking he would be a good one to block with the spell, but then after reading his powers and the spell text more closely I discovered that once he declares an adj. attack on the MD figure, their MD power is negated and thus they can’t cast any spells. Not that it mattered at all in this game as Black Knight couldn’t roll and shields and died without ever making an attack. Strange managed to finish off Azrael with some help from the Final Ruin spell. Robin struggled to put another W on Strange with his normal attack so he bat grappled over to the glyph, Strange decided to retreat out of his range and threw a couple of lightning bolts at him to no effect. Strange spend two rounds trying to finish off Robin after that and couldn’t finish him off, I think the most skulls he rolled in those 6 attacks were 2 several times and Robin blocked them each time. Robin couldn’t W Strange either though, even though he rolled 3 skulls on 3 dice twice. Strange finally ends it though.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 2
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? It is certainly a valuable tool when facing 3 attacks of 6, I’d say best case scenario that 25 points doesn’t feel too bad.
Map: Death Star Throne Room w/Bacta Tank replaced by glyph of ******* ***** *******
Units: Dr. Fate, Atom, Mesmerize@25, Lightning Bolt (370) vs. Bug, Tigra (370)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Fate grabbed the glyph right away but then Bug used some hit and run tactics to draw him out towards the steps where he was hoping to be able to grab some high ground. Fate didn’t fall for this ploy though and ended up teleporting himself onto the Emperors Throne so then Bug attacks from low ground before retreating back to grab the glyph for himself. Fate then starts to attack Tigra from HG, who moves up the steps and fights back, Fate then teleports him and Atom over by Bug and the glyph. Tigra is forced to pursue on foot. Fate manages to drive Bug off the glyph and Atom then claims it, but Tigra rushes in and takes Fate down at the end of the round. Tigra then takes down Atom to end it. I should note that I could have and should have used the Lightning Bolt spell at one point but forgot about having it and then once I remembered I had it the best moves for Fate were normal attacks, either from HG on Tigra or after moving adj. to Bug.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 3
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? Silver Banshee wins this one but I’m not sure how much it had to do with the spell. Even had the spell not been played Banshee would have most likely won. Iron Man just failed to deal any damage with his repeated attacks on her and both Doc Ock & Iron Man’s 6 defense didn’t fare as well as Silver Banshee’s 5 def. did.
Map: Death Star Throne Room w/Bacta Tank replaced by glyph of ******* ***** *******

Units: Silver Banshee, Mesmerize @25, Final Ruin, Werewolf (455) vs. Doctor Octopus, Ironman (455)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: The Werewolf heads out on a suicide mission and manages to deal 2W to Doc Ock before going down. Iron Man tries to lure Silver Banshee into a trap but she heads in the other direction instead. She then meets Iron Man in the middle of the board, Doc Ock joins the fray and gets destroyed, Iron Man takes a LEA to move onto the steps and attacks with HG, Banshee flies over onto the steps as well for a HG att., they dance up the steps each getting to attack with HG, the dice gods favor Banshee though and Iron Man falls.



Final Thoughts: It is definitely a spell you want to have when facing 3+ attacks as it can buy you a turn relatively free from worry while you try to deal with the situation. It should be noted that the one time I reduced an attack to zero (Doc Ock) I played it as it was reduced to a minimum of 1 and Doc Ock did not manage to inflict any wound with his four attacks of 1. These small tests all featuring figures with attacks a MD figure might fear insured it was used in a premium fashion, and under those circumstances 25 seems about right. The MD teams went 2-1 in these 3 tests but would have won the last test without the spell.
Looks good. Seems like we're about right at 25, then. Thanks! One thing I will ask, though - would you mind not testing units/spells of mine alongside unrevealed glyphs or units I have no knowledge of? Don't get me wrong, it's kind of cool to know there's a glyph in the pipeline, and I'm excited to learn what it is and does, but when I don't even know the name of one of the things in the test, much less what it actually does, that introduces a variable that I, as the designer, can in no way account for. Now, it doesn't seem like a big deal here, at all, but I would ask that we keep to testing it with things I can account for in future.

~ Lazy Orang, who's going to make the 'minimum of 1' change, mostly as she's not really bothered either way, there seems to be a slight preference there and it's already been tested that way once - though, again, if there's something you're slightly unclear on, I'd ask that you check quickly first so that a decision can be made before testing one way or another.


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Last edited by Lazy Orang; May 6th, 2017 at 01:43 PM.
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  #36  
Old May 6th, 2017, 02:46 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

I was just going to post all the info at once but since the Magic release is on deck for this summer and I have no idea when the glyph might come out I just edited out the info on the glyph right away. I can send you the info on the glyph and what impact it had on the game via PM though. Since the glyph has no associated point value and isn't part of one team or the other it should have had little to no effect on the spell value. You can make that final determination once I send you the related info though.
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