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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #133  
Old February 4th, 2009, 07:34 PM
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Re: 4th>10th

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Originally Posted by Revdyer View Post
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Originally Posted by GreatWhiteWolf View Post
"bonding" special ability, you don't have to have an order marker on a, say a human champion, when you are using the knights do you?
No, you do not need an order marker on the champion (or beast, or whatever you are bonding with), you get the turn as a "bonus."
ok thanks
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  #134  
Old July 6th, 2009, 08:25 AM
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Re: 4th>10th

Jexik, I've heard you say before that the 4th Mass are more about getting height than not moving and getting WtF. I think the 10th are better at getting height than the 4th because they can engage enemy units already on height and get 3 attack, allowing them to kill easier than if they had 2 attack. They then can take the height for themselves.

Also, engaging in melee allows you to get farther down the field than if you were to shoot from range. Lets say I am shooting at your (for example) Heavy Gruts from 6 range. If I were instead to close the distance, those 5 spaces inbetween would now become my territory.

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Last edited by ParaGoomba Slayer; July 6th, 2009 at 09:51 AM.
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  #135  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 02:04 PM
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Re: 4th=10th

It has been nearly 10 years since anyone posted in this thread, but I thought I'd resurrect it to point at my third debate point:

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Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
3)The 10th are just as good, if not strictly better than the 4th when facing a full melee army.
I don't know if it's the smaller footprint maps, Ken's prosletyzing, the 16 hex/figure limit (which works well for 3x Melee bonded squads, but not for ranged + rats), or other facets of the GenCon formats, but melee has become way more popular since I used to play regularly, to the point that I think the 10th are better than before. Stingers are similarly less good because their 3 attacks and 5 range hurt when facing 5-attack melee armies.

What are your thoughts? It seems like 10th would be too strong for RtW.

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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #136  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 05:48 PM
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Re: 4th>10th

I think both as a base of the army (4-5 squads) are too strong for RTW tournaments, but I have seen non-valiant 4th in as well as 2-3 squads of 4th or 10th plus some other units in RTW tournaments. Gencon 2018 finalists included:
4. Evan (Marcus, 4th x2, Romans x2, Q10) 4-1
12. Dysole (4th Mass x2, Templar x2, Raelin, Eldgrim) 3-2
3-2 Day 1 (missed Day 2 due to D20 roll): Gabe G - 10th x3, Taelord, Raelin

I agree that in non-RTW tournaments with limited start zone spaces (18 or less) that 10th are better now then in years past. I think it more has to do with smaller maps and more road, all in all things that help melee. Plus many C3V units are almost designed to counter 4th, Q9, Rats, and Raelin.
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  #137  
Old April 24th, 2019, 12:44 PM
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Re: 4th>10th

I brought 10th x2 Raelin Taelord Mario Warriors back in 2015 when the meta was a lot stronger and that build was still too strong. My dad even did 10th x1 in 2017 and that wasn't a weak army at all. Wait Then Fire is just really good and the army building versatility of the 10th makes it easier to take them in the complex builds necessary for RtW compared to the 4th
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  #138  
Old April 25th, 2019, 07:22 PM
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Re: 4th>10th

I view it pretty much the same as I viewed it before. I think 4th are better, but the difference isn't large enough to put them in separate tiers/ranks. 10th are better against melee, 4th are definitely better against range. but with that said, it's important to note 10th lose much harder to range than 4th lose to melee, that's the vital difference between the two.

With the rise of melee I don't think it changes things too too much. It closes the gap a tad more I suppose. 4th aren't really bad against melee or anything; I don't feel like I'm in a 'great matchup' or something if I play all melee into 4th. The 4th also have Charos as an option, and Charos is a pain in the *** for melee to deal with. I'd say Charos+4thx4 is quite good in the 16 figure setting. You could swap a squad for Sam Brown too if sitting a 4th Mass bugs you. And in 18 figure limit setting, which I like way better, the army is unaffected.
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