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  #157  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 09:34 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
It's a public playtesting forum, not a "free previews" forum.

I do like the idea of putting in some collection notes like "solo hero" or "goes with X unreleased figure".
Whether intentional or not, anything that enters the public play testing forum, is effectively in a "free previews" forum. That isn't it's main purpose, and that's not why you put things there, but it's what many casual members of the community are going to use it for. Especially members who are new to what the C3V/SoV is.

It is understandable that you would not want to put early designs into that forum. It's just a possible solution to the problem that was being discussed. If it is not the route the C3V wants to go, that's fine. I can also understand the wish to keep the project closed, rather than openly displaying designs that may, or may not, undergo drastic changes after seeing play testing reports. The desire to take down threads discussing an older version of the design is perfectly fine, we don't anyone to see a version that's broken, when internally it might have been balanced perfectly, and ready for release.

I am simply on the outside looking in. All I'm saying is that and knowing what a design is, is a nice thing, and showing us that, removes the problem being discussed.
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  #158  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 09:49 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
It's a public playtesting forum, not a "free previews" forum.

I do like the idea of putting in some collection notes like "solo hero" or "goes with X unreleased figure".
Whether intentional or not, anything that enters the public play testing forum, is effectively in a "free previews" forum. That isn't it's main purpose, and that's not why you put things there, but it's what many casual members of the community are going to use it for. Especially members who are new to what the C3V/SoV is.

It is understandable that you would not want to put early designs into that forum. It's just a possible solution to the problem that was being discussed. If it is not the route the C3V wants to go, that's fine. I can also understand the wish to keep the project closed, rather than openly displaying designs that may, or may not, undergo drastic changes after seeing play testing reports. The desire to take down threads discussing an older version of the design is perfectly fine, we don't anyone to see a version that's broken, when internally it might have been balanced perfectly, and ready for release.

I am simply on the outside looking in. All I'm saying is that and knowing what a design is, is a nice thing, and showing us that, removes the problem being discussed.
Yeah, I do see where you're coming from.

I'm very aware that many people treat our Public Playtesting forum as a "free previews" forum, and at this point we're okay with that because it removes the whole PM exchange thing which can be an obstacle to testing.

Placing designs in there earlier would only serve to create more work for us (okay, for me), while not giving us any valuable tests like the current system does.

In other news, look for a new wave of units to hit PPT once the tournament is wrapped up

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  #159  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 10:07 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
If the public play test forum was used for earlier designs (maybe with a warning that it is earlier in the process, and might be horribly broken) then the issue of not knowing what the design is going to be would not be as prevalent.
I'd also like to see the designs that are taken out of play testing still referenced somewhere. Either lock the thread with a note that public play testing for that design is no longer being requested, or just a sticky thread with the last version and a note that it is in internal review/playtesting.
No, we aren't putting half-baked ideas into Playtesting. Not even our internal playtesting. That would be an unkindness to our playtesters and no use to us, and a waste of your time, when we still don't believe that the unit is ready.

Each and every public playtest is valuable to us. You are essentially suggesting that we give you guys busywork, in that your tests would not actually be adding value to what we do, and those tests would just keep you busy for your own amusement. And we'd have to monitor it.

If a unit isn't in public playtesting, that's because it's not ready for that yet. Not because we're keeping it a secret, but because we know it isn't ready.

On the other hand, I disagree with the Frog about this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
It's a public playtesting forum, not a "free previews" forum.
Of course it is! We are thrilled to use it as a free preview forum. But, just as you don't get to see John Wick 4 previews now, while the film hasn't even been shot yet, public playtesting is not a preview of units that are simply not ready to be shared. It's a free preview of units that, like the next opus in the Star Wars melange, is ready for people to have a look at.

Quote:
I do like the idea of putting in some collection notes like "solo hero" or "goes with X unreleased figure".
We probably could do this. But no promises on how helpful it will be!

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  #160  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 10:15 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

I fee like I struck a cord I didn't mean to. I was just trying to come up with a possible solution to the problem being discussed. I wasn't trying to heavily campaign for this, or force anything onto the C3V that they didn't want. I was just speaking my mind. I'm sorry if I've come off that way.
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  #161  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 10:20 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

You didn't strike a chord, if you mean that you think I might have been annoyed or something. My attachment to what I wrote above is certainly not personal.

You made a proposal that has a certain appeal, and you and the community deserved a clear answer about why it wouldn't work. That's all.

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  #162  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 10:31 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

I really like the idea of short little advertisements when the minis are announced. For example, a "Demon-Worshipping Common Squad" promo with the Acolytes would be a cool touch and spur a lot of people into buying them, IMO, along with Corvor.

Granted, it would have to come with a caveat that it's always subject to change.
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  #163  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 11:21 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
I really like the idea of short little advertisements when the minis are announced. For example, a "Demon-Worshipping Common Squad" promo with the Acolytes would be a cool touch and spur a lot of people into buying them, IMO, along with Corvor.

Granted, it would have to come with a caveat that it's always subject to change.
Yeah, that makes sense. Combine the public service angle with a little marketing that is both helpful and fun.

Thanks again to @GreatPlainsKnight for raising this issue!

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  #164  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 11:58 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

I like @Leaf_It suggestion. I've mentioned elsewhere if there were design notes for announced minis. Something like what the plan is for bonding, goals, and general would go a long way to make the early announcement more meaningful.

I disagree with you @superfrog . The public playtesting forum is very much a free preview for most of us even if that's not what it was designed to be. I've made purchase decisions based on what the early preview looks like.

Something to consider is that even the cheapest, $3 mini comes out to $10 shipped with tax. Definitely not an impulse buy for something you won't be able to take to the table for at least a year.

Common squads are probably the most problematic since they can cost quite a bit if it's a 4 figure squad and someone wants to own multiples. I've personally decided to lay off purchasing any more 4 figure common squads just because costs are too high once the card is released.

I definitely think some "teaser trailers," if you will, would be great and help people buy into the figures earlier
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  #165  
Old October 24th, 2019, 12:01 AM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
I like @Leaf_It suggestion. I've mentioned elsewhere if there were design notes for announced minis. Something like what the plan is for bonding, goals, and general would go a long way to make the early announcement more meaningful.

I disagree with you @superfrog . The public playtesting forum is very much a free preview for most of us even if that's not what it was designed to be. I've made purchase decisions based on what the early preview looks like.

Something to consider is that even the cheapest, $3 mini comes out to $10 shipped with tax. Definitely not an impulse buy for something you won't be able to take to the table for at least a year.

Common squads are probably the most problematic since they can cost quite a bit if it's a 4 figure squad and someone wants to own multiples. I've personally decided to lay off purchasing any more 4 figure common squads just because costs are too high once the card is released.
I think we can add a few synergy web notes to our announcements. As to the "free preview" comment Superfrog made, though I already picked on him for it (and he is free to speak for himself), I think he was responding to what looked like a request for previews of units that are relatively early in our process. Or, at least, units that we do not believe are ripe for public playtesting. I think that's what he meant.

Not that our PPTers shouldn't use the opportunity to get a preview of what we think is *ready* for them. We certainly hope they will use it for that.

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  #166  
Old October 24th, 2019, 12:16 AM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
I like @Leaf_It suggestion. I've mentioned elsewhere if there were design notes for announced minis. Something like what the plan is for bonding, goals, and general would go a long way to make the early announcement more meaningful.

I disagree with you @superfrog . The public playtesting forum is very much a free preview for most of us even if that's not what it was designed to be. I've made purchase decisions based on what the early preview looks like.

Something to consider is that even the cheapest, $3 mini comes out to $10 shipped with tax. Definitely not an impulse buy for something you won't be able to take to the table for at least a year.

Common squads are probably the most problematic since they can cost quite a bit if it's a 4 figure squad and someone wants to own multiples. I've personally decided to lay off purchasing any more 4 figure common squads just because costs are too high once the card is released.
I think we can add a few synergy web notes to our announcements. As to the "free preview" comment Superfrog made, though I already picked on him for it (and he is free to speak for himself), I think he was responding to what looked like a request for previews of units that are relatively early in our process. Or, at least, units that we do not believe are ripe for public playtesting. I think that's what he meant.

Not that our PPTers shouldn't use the opportunity to get a preview of what we think is *ready* for them. We certainly hope they will use it for that.
I'm not meaning to pick on superfrog, just adding another voice of agreement that at least one more person treats the public Playtesting forum as a preview. What you have here is valuable customer data. .

I'm curious, have you guys ever considered setting up a store for C3V? That would go a long way to overcoming some of the issues we have today of stock availability thereby relieving pressure to know more about a figure before its released.
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  #167  
Old October 24th, 2019, 12:25 AM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Yes, we have. Both as a group and myself, alone in a room. I've given it a *lot* of thought.

If you have an idea about how to make it work, feel free to shoot me a PM. Just remember: we are volunteers, working for volunteers' wages and with a volunteer's budget. But send me a PM, if you have an idea on that point.

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  #168  
Old October 24th, 2019, 12:40 AM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

I do want to clarify slightly, since my earlier post was a bit too rushed and didn't come across as intended.

"Free previews" are not the goal of the Public Playtesting forum. They're definitely a feature of the Public Playtesting forum, and it's a feature I like and would encourage people to take advantage of!

But in thinking about how we run things, we're going to optimize that forum to boost the Playtesting output rather than the "free preview" side benefit.

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