Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Rules & FAQ's
Official Rules & FAQ's Compilation and discussion of official HeroScape Rules and Frequently Asked Questions. **Special attacks never receive any bonuses.**


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #10897  
Old August 7th, 2018, 08:16 AM
itsbuzzi's Avatar
itsbuzzi itsbuzzi is offline
 
Join Date: November 27, 2012
Location: USA - RI - Providence
Posts: 373
itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
@OrcElfArmyOne

What’s wrong with Burial Marsh, in your opinion? It looks like a pretty fun map, albeit it that it punishes cavalry units.
I feel as though this is a good example of the discussion at hand. One person may find a map terrible, another may find it great.

I believe discussion before on my event thread where I wanted to use Turret Rocks SF said it isn't a good map whereas Ollie said it is a good map.

In the map making suggestions by the current ARV they have I think 10 map making guides to watch for, but your map doesn't need to follow all of them and can have 1 or 2. Off the top of my head the first one is does Raelin break the map. Say a map is made but Raelin does break the map. If two players play on the map and neither uses Raelin it is a good map. If one uses her then it is one-sided.

I believe this is the nature of maps; the answer to the question of if a map is good or bad to use probably lands in the depends category. Maps can still have large fatal flaws but for one that has not played on many maps (me) I cannot tell the difference at this point.

Keep doing what you're doing, but do it better. ~Self

Classic Card Scans & Tourney Map Building Requirements Excel Sheet
Reply With Quote
  #10898  
Old August 7th, 2018, 08:30 AM
ollie's Avatar
ollie ollie is offline
Is a Quadradical
 
Join Date: March 19, 2007
Location: VT
Posts: 9,538
Images: 43
Blog Entries: 22
ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

I think "fatal" is overstating it in most cases. From what I can tell, the maps you're worried about will still lead to an excellent tournament.

(I know I'm repeating myself with that comment, but I wanted to seem vaguely on topic before returning to the beer conversation. I agree that Dogfish Head is great---their Indian Brown Ale, despite being a completely made up genre as far as I know, is my favourite of the ones I've had. One of the few non-VT breweries I buy from reasonably regularly. I'm envious of you living near them DS.)
Reply With Quote
  #10899  
Old August 7th, 2018, 09:07 AM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 25,134
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

It is one thing to quibble over the difference between a good map and a great map. Maybe people might disagree on the subject, and often enough in such cases the distinction will not be exposed. I would not say, however, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it’s all subjective or dependent on what armies people happen to bring. We have standards, and we have them for a reason. Some maps are better than others.

Vermont is a fine place for breweries, I know. We have a couple local ones you wouldn’t know, just as you have local breweries we don’t get down here.

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #10900  
Old August 7th, 2018, 09:37 AM
OrcElfArmyOne's Avatar
OrcElfArmyOne OrcElfArmyOne is online now
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 1,396
Images: 2
OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbuzzi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
@OrcElfArmyOne

What’s wrong with Burial Marsh, in your opinion? It looks like a pretty fun map, albeit it that it punishes cavalry units.
I feel as though this is a good example of the discussion at hand. One person may find a map terrible, another may find it great.

I believe discussion before on my event thread where I wanted to use Turret Rocks SF said it isn't a good map whereas Ollie said it is a good map.

In the map making suggestions by the current ARV they have I think 10 map making guides to watch for, but your map doesn't need to follow all of them and can have 1 or 2. Off the top of my head the first one is does Raelin break the map. Say a map is made but Raelin does break the map. If two players play on the map and neither uses Raelin it is a good map. If one uses her then it is one-sided.

I believe this is the nature of maps; the answer to the question of if a map is good or bad to use probably lands in the depends category. Maps can still have large fatal flaws but for one that has not played on many maps (me) I cannot tell the difference at this point.
Except it isn't one person who finds Burial Marsh bad. I just got back from GenCon, and it was the consensus among those who were there, including Dok, the Ashs, the Elders, Rym, and others...

@flameslayer93
Here are Burial Marsh's problems:
1. Chokiness. This map just gets bogged the heck down by Rats and other screens. It's a deceptively narrow map. This makes melee struggle a bit vs range, especially with a screen.

2. Dragons. Dragons destroy on this map. Those two super-high 3 hex heights are ridiculously strong perches. Couple this with chokiness of the road and paths to it makes it so that Nilf + Greens or Nilf + Rats goes from a great army to a ridiculous one.

3. Double-space Denial. Double-space denial is brutal on this map. I had a game of Monster Mash on it vs Nick the Ant where I was able to just prevent Tor-Kul-Na and the rest of his big bads from moving down to the Level 1 area between the two roads and next to the glyph. He just couldn't move.

4. Range vs Range. This is a very boring map for range vs range where they just shoot across at each other. There isn't any real dynamic terrain and positioning involved.

@dok any other problems I've missed?
Reply With Quote
  #10901  
Old August 7th, 2018, 10:40 AM
itsbuzzi's Avatar
itsbuzzi itsbuzzi is offline
 
Join Date: November 27, 2012
Location: USA - RI - Providence
Posts: 373
itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbuzzi View Post

I feel as though this is a good example of the discussion at hand. One person may find a map terrible, another may find it great.

I believe discussion before on my event thread where I wanted to use Turret Rocks SF said it isn't a good map whereas Ollie said it is a good map.

In the map making suggestions by the current ARV they have I think 10 map making guides to watch for, but your map doesn't need to follow all of them and can have 1 or 2. Off the top of my head the first one is does Raelin break the map. Say a map is made but Raelin does break the map. If two players play on the map and neither uses Raelin it is a good map. If one uses her then it is one-sided.

I believe this is the nature of maps; the answer to the question of if a map is good or bad to use probably lands in the depends category. Maps can still have large fatal flaws but for one that has not played on many maps (me) I cannot tell the difference at this point.
That is all.

Keep doing what you're doing, but do it better. ~Self

Classic Card Scans & Tourney Map Building Requirements Excel Sheet
Reply With Quote
  #10902  
Old August 7th, 2018, 12:23 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 21,943
Images: 108
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Here are Burial Marsh's problems:
1. Chokiness. This map just gets bogged the heck down by Rats and other screens. It's a deceptively narrow map. This makes melee struggle a bit vs range, especially with a screen.

2. Dragons. Dragons destroy on this map. Those two super-high 3 hex heights are ridiculously strong perches. Couple this with chokiness of the road and paths to it makes it so that Nilf + Greens or Nilf + Rats goes from a great army to a ridiculous one.

3. Double-space Denial. Double-space denial is brutal on this map. I had a game of Monster Mash on it vs Nick the Ant where I was able to just prevent Tor-Kul-Na and the rest of his big bads from moving down to the Level 1 area between the two roads and next to the glyph. He just couldn't move.

4. Range vs Range. This is a very boring map for range vs range where they just shoot across at each other. There isn't any real dynamic terrain and positioning involved.

@dok any other problems I've missed?
3 and 4 on that list are my main objections to the map. 4 is notable because it's not really a comment on what armies are good on the map. It's just noting that the map can lead to some boring, one-note games. "Two-Hill" maps always have this potential issue. It's better on some than on others, but Burial Marsh has it relatively bad.

FWIW I agree with your self-assessment - the rest of the maps you picked were very good choices.

Kevin's story about the 6-map pool with two Thorians is illustrative. It's correct to say that people should be able to adjust to a given map pool and design an army around it. I also welcome some variation within a map pool; it's nice if you need to adapt your strategy to the different maps. I like having some wide or split startzone maps, for instance.

That said, if the presence of one map in a pool of 8 could lead to competitive players ruling out armies that they may otherwise play, then that map can reduce the diversity of the event. It's also a negative play experience to get caught on That One Map and feel like you lost because of it. This might not be a thing at many local scenes, but it's definitely a thing at Gencon. From Warden in 2010 to Wendigo in 2016, there's been plenty of That One Map over the years. I don't think Burial Marsh quite rose to that level but it was my least favorite for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #10903  
Old August 17th, 2018, 03:00 PM
itsbuzzi's Avatar
itsbuzzi itsbuzzi is offline
 
Join Date: November 27, 2012
Location: USA - RI - Providence
Posts: 373
itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Back to back question, Ouch. Hope this one doesn't cause much array but I have always had this question and I might as well ask it.

The Minions of Utgar have the Deadly Strike ability which states: "When attacking with Minions of Utgar all skulls roll count for one additional hit". Another figure, Zetacron has a similar ability with a distinction. His ability of Deadly Shot reads: "When attacking with Zetacron, each skull rolled counts for one additional hit".

How I have read this is Zetacron doubles his hits because it states each skull rolled counts for an additional hit. For the Minions I have treated their ability as if they roll all skulls they gain an additional hit. I am doing as told by many "Do what the card says not what it doesn't" but looking at the rulings and clarifications section of each it is worded the same and I am still wrong in my calling. I would think the difference in wording would make the power different, or at least someone else had my confusion. Help

Keep doing what you're doing, but do it better. ~Self

Classic Card Scans & Tourney Map Building Requirements Excel Sheet
Reply With Quote
  #10904  
Old August 17th, 2018, 03:08 PM
superfrog's Avatar
superfrog superfrog is online now
This is merely a joke.
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: USA - CA - South Pasadena
Posts: 9,333
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 1
superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

They do the same thing (in this case, what you've described for Zetacron).

EDIT: There's 4 cards that have this power (Deadly Strike/Deadly Shot). The first to be released was the Omnicron Snipers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnicron Snipers
DEADLY SHOT
When attacking with Omnicron Snipers, all skulls rolled count for one additional hit.
The second was Minions of Utgar:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minions of Utgar
DEADLY STRIKE
When attacking with Minions of Utgar all skulls rolled count for one additional hit.
The only change here was a dropped comma, and renamed from SHOT to STRIKE for a melee card.

The third was Zetacron:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetacron
DEADLY SHOT
When attacking with Zetacron, each skull rolled counts for one additional hit.
Here we see the "each" language, although it has the same name and function as the Sniper's power.

The last was Migol Ironwill:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migol Ironwill
DEADLY STRIKE
When attacking with Migol Ironwill, each skull rolled counts as one additional hit.
Here "for" is replaced by "as" for no apparent reason, and it's back to STRIKE since the card is melee.

Powers with the same name always work the same way*. I'd guess they updated the wording for clarity in future editions of the power.
*
Spoiler Alert!


Last edited by superfrog; August 17th, 2018 at 03:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10905  
Old August 17th, 2018, 03:32 PM
itsbuzzi's Avatar
itsbuzzi itsbuzzi is offline
 
Join Date: November 27, 2012
Location: USA - RI - Providence
Posts: 373
itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
They do the same thing (in this case, what you've described for Zetacron).
It just bothers me that they are worded differently. If they were to mean the same thing would they not use the same wording. I understand the case that all skulls as in each but I did not see these were interchangeable. Is there any FAQs or any other rulings that explicitly state that you double whenever it says all skulls?

For the Omnicron Snipers having different wording than Zetacron has to have some sort of meaning.

Edit: Sniped. I guess the fault can lead to a poor choice of word rephrasing. I just hope I was not the only one to have this dilemma.

Keep doing what you're doing, but do it better. ~Self

Classic Card Scans & Tourney Map Building Requirements Excel Sheet

Last edited by itsbuzzi; August 17th, 2018 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Sniped
Reply With Quote
  #10906  
Old August 17th, 2018, 03:34 PM
superfrog's Avatar
superfrog superfrog is online now
This is merely a joke.
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: USA - CA - South Pasadena
Posts: 9,333
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 1
superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Check my edit for some more explanation.

Reply With Quote
  #10907  
Old August 17th, 2018, 03:38 PM
itsbuzzi's Avatar
itsbuzzi itsbuzzi is offline
 
Join Date: November 27, 2012
Location: USA - RI - Providence
Posts: 373
itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby! itsbuzzi rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

I did thank you for the explanation. I also learned that Charos had an errata like Taelord which I was unaware about. I was aware of Taelords.

Keep doing what you're doing, but do it better. ~Self

Classic Card Scans & Tourney Map Building Requirements Excel Sheet
Reply With Quote
  #10908  
Old August 17th, 2018, 03:41 PM
superfrog's Avatar
superfrog superfrog is online now
This is merely a joke.
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: USA - CA - South Pasadena
Posts: 9,333
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 1
superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth
Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

I hope I didn't confuse you about Charos.
His Counter Strike does work against Samurai. I was just pointing out that even though the power isn't 100% identical, it does do the same things. The only difference is who it can be used against.
Other than Charos, powers with the same names are always identical in effect.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Rules & FAQ's
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HS Database dump? LMB Software 5 October 21st, 2009 10:48 AM
Pokemon question (new question, please look) mr_rex777 Other Games 14 September 14th, 2007 07:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:43 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.