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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #121  
Old October 16th, 2014, 12:12 AM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

Army Test: Zombie + Lex Luthor (Business Suit) + Superman (400) + Eradicator + Krypto + Hired Guns + Bodyguard x5 (1185) vs. Ms. Marvel + Martian Manhunter + Valkyrie + Angel + Ragdoll (1190)

Map: Mayberry with standard online event E-glyphs

3-wound Superman, Lex, 3 Bodyguards, 3 Hired Guns

Zombie didn't inflict a single wound, but absorbed two of the best attacks Manhunter and Ms. Marvel dished out before dying. Hired Guns were relatively ineffective due to the range on the other team, Ms Marvel's "best defense", Angel's movement, and MM's intangibility. But forcing the Ms. Marvel build to grind through Krypto and zombie, plus bodyguards and lex clogging things, and Eradicator's SA + Healing, collectively bought Supes enough time to pile up the needed wounds on the three big hitters.

Planning on rolling this one back one more time.

Last edited by dok; October 16th, 2014 at 11:39 AM.
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  #122  
Old October 17th, 2014, 02:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

My thoughts right now - is this a big enough concern that we shouldn't include him in the release on Halloween? If necessary we can just do Dracula (and his Brides?), then push him and Brother Voodoo back a bit.
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  #123  
Old October 17th, 2014, 02:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

Oh wow, I didn't know we were operating on a deadline here!

I can try to get my roll-back test done by Saturday at the latest. But for argument's sake let's say zombie shows strong there. Here are my thoughts:
  • As I said above, I think it would be nice if you could pick a hero to start with the amulet. This gets rid of the first turn hand-off that's weird. This a theme thing not a power thing, although you could justify a small point bump based on this (saves you that early OM).
  • The Larfleeze/Zombie combo is very good because of Larf's ability to hold the amulet even if he takes wounds. Still, while it's up there among the strongest 2-figure combos, it's not way out in front. I don't think this is a huge concern.
  • I get more riled up about zombie just getting tossed into a huge number of builds because, hey, free activation. The strongest builds will be builds where the OM sink figure is unlikely to take wounds, like that Lex build I was testing with. The opposing army is really good there, but it still feels like Lex has the edge, and zombie is playing a pretty large part in that.

One possible way to deal with this without tweaking price would be to add sidekick-ish language to the amulet.
EQUIPMENT GLYPH
After revealing an Order Marker on this figure's card and taking a turn with this figure, if you did not take any turns with any other figures, you may...
Then it can't stack an activation on top of other stuff. AFAICT this would not have impacted testing results.
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  #124  
Old October 17th, 2014, 03:33 PM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

Actually, I see that Doc Glock did test with Luke Cage combos. Not really the strongest zombie sink among bonding figures, but he can do the job.

I'm not super super concerned about zombie, but if released as-is I feel like he's going to be a throw-in for a LOT of armies, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
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  #125  
Old October 19th, 2014, 12:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
One possible way to deal with this without tweaking price would be to add sidekick-ish language to the amulet.
EQUIPMENT GLYPH
After revealing an Order Marker on this figure's card and taking a turn with this figure, if you did not take any turns with any other figures, you may...
Then it can't stack an activation on top of other stuff. AFAICT this would not have impacted testing results.
I would support this change. Still in line with the spirit of the design while keeping ridiculous combos under control. dok (and anyone else who has played with Zombie), do you think this would affect his cost at all?

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  #126  
Old October 20th, 2014, 12:07 AM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

I think he's well worth the 120 after that change.
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  #127  
Old October 20th, 2014, 12:30 AM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

That seems to really be the standard for this sort of thing. In the tests I used him in (not for him, but for other Undead testing) I don't think I ever realized you COULD stack turns like that, and he was still in the ballpark. I wouldn't object.
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  #128  
Old October 20th, 2014, 12:52 AM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

I can go along with that as well.

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C3G INDEX - SSE 92 - JSA GENERATIONS
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  #129  
Old October 20th, 2014, 01:29 PM
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Re: Zombie - Design Phase

OK, so, here is where I am:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGalahad View Post
DAMBALLAH CONTROL
At the start the game, place a Glyph of Amulet of Damballah on the card of a Unique Hero you control. If the Glyph of Amulet of Damballah is on a card that activates Zombie, add 1 to Zombie's Attack number for that turn. Before taking a turn with Zombie, if the Glyph of Amulet of Damballah is in play and not equipped by a figure you control, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 14 or lower, Zombie's turn immediately ends. An opponent that does not control a figure equipped with the Glyph of Amulet of Damballah may never take temporary or permanent control of Zombie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGalahad View Post
GLYPH OF AMULET OF DAMBALLAH
After revealing an Order Marker on this figure's card and taking a turn with this figure, if you did not take any turns with any other figures, you may choose any Unique Hero figure with the Damballah Control special power. Take temporary control of that hero and immediately take a turn with the chosen Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before this glyph was used. All Order Markers that were on the chosen Hero's card will stay on the card.
Anyone else worried about Zombie with these changes? He's still very good just paired with a big hitter hero - Larfleeze is obvious but something like Vulcan or Black Adam or even Apoc makes sense too. But my Larfleeze tests lead me to believe that this combo is strong, but not broken.
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  #130  
Old October 20th, 2014, 03:35 PM
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Re: Zombie - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
OK, so, here is where I am:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGalahad View Post
DAMBALLAH CONTROL
At the start the game, place a Glyph of Amulet of Damballah on the card of a Unique Hero you control. If the Glyph of Amulet of Damballah is on a card that activates Zombie, add 1 to Zombie's Attack number for that turn. Before taking a turn with Zombie, if the Glyph of Amulet of Damballah is in play and not equipped by a figure you control, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 14 or lower, Zombie's turn immediately ends. An opponent that does not control a figure equipped with the Glyph of Amulet of Damballah may never take temporary or permanent control of Zombie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGalahad View Post
GLYPH OF AMULET OF DAMBALLAH
After revealing an Order Marker on this figure's card and taking a turn with this figure, if you did not take any turns with any other figures, you may choose any Unique Hero figure with the Damballah Control special power. Take temporary control of that Hero and immediately take a turn with the chosen Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before this glyph was used. All Order Markers that were on the chosen Hero's card will stay on the card.
Anyone else worried about Zombie with these changes? He's still very good just paired with a big hitter hero - Larfleeze is obvious but something like Vulcan or Black Adam or even Apoc makes sense too. But my Larfleeze tests lead me to believe that this combo is strong, but not broken.
Can we leave it in the singular?

Were you still considering the same cost?

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C3G INDEX - SSE 92 - JSA GENERATIONS
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  #131  
Old October 20th, 2014, 04:26 PM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

Singular is fine, yeah.

I think same cost, or as much as 10 higher (for the first change, which saves you an early OM). That way we're basically relying on the existing playtests and just closing the potential for stacking zombie on other multi-activation builds (which wasn't tested very much).

EDIT: I spoke with Dysole and he was OK with Zombie as-is.

Last edited by dok; October 21st, 2014 at 05:43 PM.
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  #132  
Old October 20th, 2014, 04:33 PM
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Re: The Book of Zombie

Yeah, I think this is mostly just closing holes. Less re-evaluating so much as bringing the text in-line with intent.

I'd be comfortable leaving him as-is points-wise, but if the Comp Team wants a bump I'd support it.
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