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  #169  
Old March 13th, 2016, 10:50 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

I'd prefer we play it safe and go with 190 here, but Yea either way.

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  #170  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:06 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

I was considering 190, but I feel 180 is best based on the testing. TB mentions she went 4-3 in Public testing, 4-1 outside of LO's games. However, I faced Gutudak when he playtested her, and all 3 of those games that he won with her were extremely lucky as I made mention in the tests. The whole reason we played a 3rd game was because of just how 1 sided luck wise the first 2 were. So I have to take those into account here too when considering her actual Wins/Losses. Had other people's tests backed that up, she would have certainly been 190, but other than Gutudak's 3 games, she hasn't had nearly as strong of a showing, and the fact that I witnessed it first hand, I know how much luck was involved with the rolls.

So based on everything combined:

She went 5-7 on 1v1 matchups.
She went 1-1 on Squad matchups.

Game 1 was a loss with Wizard with 1 life remaining.
Game 2 she won with Cap with 1 life remaining, and Oracle with full health.
Game 3 was a loss with Spider-Man with 2 life remaining.

Game 4 she won with Gamora with 4 life remaining, and Groot with full life remaining.
Game 5 she won with Martian Manhunter with 2 life remaining, Cap with 3 life remaining, Bane with 4 life remaining, and Oracle unwounded.
Game 6 she won with Cap with 1 life remaining, Bane with 4 life remaining, Katana and Oracle had full life remaining.


Game 6 she won with Wasp with 1 life remaining, and Oracle with full life remaining.
Game 7 she lost with Lady Shiva with 1 life remaining, and one Elite League Assassin remaining.

Game 8 she lost with Baron Heinrich Zemo full life remaining.
Game 9 she lost with Superboy with 1 life remaining, Karate Kid with 2 life remaining, and Cosmic Boy with full life remaining.

So even if one doesn't take my word for the luck involved in Gutudak's 3 wins(which anyone can browse the details of the report to see), his games certainly stick out from the rest. Every other game except for 1 of Lazy Orang's where she lost hard, all the others are relatively close finishes.

So I'd say 180 seems fair and on point, but I'm not exactly opposed to 190 if there's enough concern.
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  #171  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:20 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

I'm always one to err on the side of cation, particularly for a unit whose faction isn't finished yet - we don't know how she'll play when she has the backing of the Outsiders. So I'd push for 190 on that merit alone.

Yea, though, regardless.
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  #172  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:38 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

Alright, if 3 of you feel 190, that's what we'll do, it's not going to make a giant difference. I guess we could have finished without LO in that case.

I'm just telling you that you should not base these concerns off of the fact that Gutudak's games were littered with luck on his side, and poor luck on my side going up against him. I botched many defense rolls, lost initiative 9 times out of 10, and Human Torch's Supernovas that targeted 3-4 people in 2 of the games, caused only 1 wound because out of 7 dice I rolled 1 skull the first time, and 4 skulls the 2nd time but only amounted to 1 wound. That's those 3 games in a nutshell.

She's had close games beyond those, where it came down to anyone's game. She never performed nearly as well outside of those games. None of the other games came close to being 1 sided, outside of Lazy's 2nd, which was a loss.

So all I ask is that you take that into consideration. If you played someone in 3 games, and all 3 you are losing initiative 9/10, botching defenses left and right, playing against them with height nearly the whole game, and your big attacks are flopping, and the end results stick out from the other 7 games...would you throw that on Katana's power level being the reason, or just a matter of luck?

Speaking of, as a new faction, the higher costs should be on the ones offering the synergy/boosts, IMO. Because as soon as those boosts are taken away, which in a match they will be, she's back to being just her value alone. So the weight in that regard should come with the one supplying it.
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  #173  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:41 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

Down to @Karat and we're good to go.
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  #174  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:45 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Speaking of, as a new faction, the higher costs should be on the ones offering the synergy/boosts, IMO. Because as soon as those boosts are taken away, which in a match they will be, she's back to being just her value alone. So the weight in that regard should come with the one supplying it.
I agree 100% - I only bring it up here because of the debate between two costs. If we were set on 180 with no discussion it wouldn't be a concern I just like to be cautious, particularly if there's still unknown variables.
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  #175  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:47 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

Like I said, I won't make a big fight out of it. 190 just seemed more the way the tests were leaning. Gutudak said he felt him at 190-200, Bats essentially played her at 190 and found her balanced, and LO said 180-190 felt solid. So it's not just Gutudak's games that I'm basing that on.

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  #176  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:49 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

That's fine. I was open to 190 from the start. I don't think that's going to change her draftability any. I just want to make sure Gutudak's games aren't skewing people's perception of exactly how close her games have gone.
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  #177  
Old March 13th, 2016, 11:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

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Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
Like I said, I won't make a big fight out of it. 190 just seemed more the way the tests were leaning. Gutudak said he felt him at 190-200, Bats essentially played her at 190 and found her balanced, and LO said 180-190 felt solid. So it's not just Gutudak's games that I'm basing that on.
Gutudak said that because he destroyed me 3 games in a row. He also said "I'd wait for more tests because a lot of luck played a big part in that". Bats said 180 seemed on point. LO said 180 seemed fine, but 190 if you want to be cautious.

But it's fine. Not worth fighting over. Just making sure all is clear and considered.
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  #178  
Old March 13th, 2016, 12:06 PM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Just making sure all is clear and considered.
For sure. That's totally fair. Rest assured I try to take as much into consideration as I can before I post. If I was really worried about Gutudak's games I would have made a bigger deal out of it.

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  #179  
Old March 13th, 2016, 01:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

Fwiw I am fine at 180 or 190 here and my yea is good for both.

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  #180  
Old March 13th, 2016, 03:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Katana - Vote for Final Editing

Yea
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