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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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  #1  
Old June 13th, 2008, 03:21 PM
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Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

For those of you who have been around since the beginning, have you held an original RotV army card in one hand and a new Wave 8 card in the other? Notice the difference? I noticed a slight difference with my SotM set, but now it's very obvious.

I had several pieces in my newest shipment get bent or broken when attempting to remove them from some rather persistent packaging. One of my Jungle bushes popped off and doesn't want to stay on, the 10th Foot's rifles are very fragile, and before I realized the new cards were so flimsy, I severely bent one of the Grok Rider cards.

I greatly appreciate that my latest Heroscape pieces cost the same as all my others (though 10 bucks for Grok Riders and Templar Cavalry always struck me as a bit much, but that's another discussion), but I'm wondering just how far this is going to go? Paul has been very forthcoming in sharing with us how expensive Chinese production is getting. What are your thoughts? Is it worth it?
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Old June 13th, 2008, 03:44 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

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Originally Posted by Velenne View Post
For those of you who have been around since the beginning, have you held an original RotV army card in one hand and a new Wave 8 card in the other? Notice the difference? I noticed a slight difference with my SotM set, but now it's very obvious.

I had several pieces in my newest shipment get bent or broken when attempting to remove them from some rather persistent packaging. One of my Jungle bushes popped off and doesn't want to stay on, the 10th Foot's rifles are very fragile, and before I realized the new cards were so flimsy, I severely bent one of the Grok Rider cards.

I greatly appreciate that my latest Heroscape pieces cost the same as all my others (though 10 bucks for Grok Riders and Templar Cavalry always struck me as a bit much, but that's another discussion), but I'm wondering just how far this is going to go? Paul has been very forthcoming in sharing with us how expensive Chinese production is getting. What are your thoughts? Is it worth it?

Is what worth it?

If you are asking if the game of HeroScape is still worth it. Then I must say yes. When I first got into the game it wasn't because the card stock was of exceptional quality. It was because of the customizable battlefields and miniatures that went with them. I had always wanted to get into a miniature game. But a lot of other games like Warhammer are not that accessible to the average person. My problem is I can't paint worth a flip! HeroScape still comes with everything you need. So yes, it's worth it.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 03:47 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

Good grief. The packages are just arriving and half of us haven't even got them or opened them yet, and you're already complaining about the quality?

The army cards changed the quality back after Wave One. We had a big discussion back then, and Rob & Craig explained the cost-cutting issues.

Is it still worth it? Heck, yea. It's a lot of plastic for what we're paying, even with the Groks and Templars, which are huge chunks of expensive-oil-based product.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 04:02 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

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Originally Posted by Finrod View Post
Good grief. The packages are just arriving and half of us haven't even got them or opened them yet, and you're already complaining about the quality?

Well, I have got my wave 8 in hand already, but, if you'd prefer we wait a bit to complain about it, I'll complain about wave 7...

I thought all the spears and rifles of the Ashigaru were especially flimsy. As are the cavalry's lances. I also agree that $10 (if you're lucky) seems a bit steep for a three figure (one squad) pack...

My wallet started laughing at me when I put all of wave 8 on my table, looked at it, and said "That's fifty bucks right there." Don't get me wrong, I love Heroscape and wave 8. However, my bank account really feels the burn.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 04:03 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

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Originally Posted by Finrod View Post
Good grief. The packages are just arriving and half of us haven't even got them or opened them yet, and you're already complaining about the quality?

The army cards changed the quality back after Wave One. We had a big discussion back then, and Rob & Craig explained the cost-cutting issues.

Is it still worth it? Heck, yea. It's a lot of plastic for what we're paying, even with the Groks and Templars, which are huge chunks of expensive-oil-based product.

This has been discussed before. I believe around Wave 3 or 4. Wave I has the same card-stock quality as ROTV. Wave 2 got thinner, Wave 3 even thinner, and then we all decided the stats would be printed on toilet paper by Wave 7 or 8. Well so far, we're ahead of the toilet paper prophecy, so I'm happy--plus I understand the increasing cost of production.

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  #6  
Old June 13th, 2008, 04:03 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

Yeah, the change in card thickness is old news but thanks for the heads-up on the blister packs. I'll take extra care opening mine.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 04:27 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

Complaining? Goodness, no! I made the observation, stated that I appreciated their efforts to manage cost, and have lauded June 13th to heavens for weeks now!

And yes, there was a reduction in the thickness of the cards after RotV, but I'm actually referring to a further reduction in their quality as well as the apparent (though completely unverified) reduction in the durability of the plastic miniatures and terrain objects themselves.

Allow me to pose a more elaborative question then, since "Is it worth it" was too succinct: "Would you rather pay the same price for a product of lesser quality, or would you rather pay slightly more for a product of equal quality to what you received in the past?" and then I'll phrase it again just to make absolutely sure I'm coming through clearly, "Which is more important to you, saving a couple of bucks or having durable game pieces?"

Here's hoping my communication skills are up to snuff this time...
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Old June 13th, 2008, 04:33 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

I'm happy with the current standards. The cards are durable enough for me.

Two small packs with shipping from Hasbro is around $30.00. That's expensive enough.

Although I see your point. I have no objections to cutting costs if that's what it takes to keep the game profitable and in production.

I do remove pack gingerly from the wrappings. That's for sure.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 04:38 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

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Originally Posted by Velenne View Post
Complaining? Goodness, no! I made the observation, stated that I appreciated their efforts to manage cost, and have lauded June 13th to heavens for weeks now!
Then I clearly misunderstood you. Mea culpa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velenne View Post
And yes, there was a reduction in the thickness of the cards after RotV, but I'm actually referring to a further reduction in their quality as well as the apparent (though completely unverified) reduction in the durability of the plastic miniatures and terrain objects themselves.
On the cards, it doesn't bother me at all. I get them all laminated, anyway. On the miniatures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velenne View Post
Allow me to pose a more elaborative question then, since "Is it worth it" was too succinct: "Would you rather pay the same price for a product of lesser quality, or would you rather pay slightly more for a product of equal quality to what you received in the past?" and then I'll phrase it again just to make absolutely sure I'm coming through clearly, "Which is more important to you, saving a couple of bucks or having durable game pieces?"
Much more interesting question.

And very difficult to answer. I think I'd be willing to pay more, but I honestly don't know if that would make a difference. The corporation has to evaluate what the market as a whole is willing to pay. If raising the cost of the sets by a few dollars would price out too many of their younger customers, it wouldn't be worth it to them to do so.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 04:56 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

I don't mind if they try to cut costs by lowering the quality of the accessories (order markers, dice, unit cards), but I would hate to see the quality of terrain and units deteriorate.

I think the fragility you mention may stem more from the fact that we're seeing more elaborate designs rather than lesser quality. It seems we're seeing more lances, extended weaponry, and greater detail. The jungle terrain is a lot more delicate in design, and it looks much better this way than it would if it had been molded from sturdier plastic. I'm also incredibly impressed with the quality of the colors. My first ROTV master set's units had colors that seem somewhat washed out in comparison with what's been released since.

This does mean that I'll have to take better care to store my stuff.

-David
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Old June 13th, 2008, 04:59 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

The thickness of the card is no concern to me. If stored in cd holders then thickness isn't really an issue. I do worry about bending cards during the unpacking process.

I am concerned by flimsy pieces. I have just always had a fear that I would break a figure unpacking them. They are a little snug in the packing. So far that fear has been unfounded, but there have been a few figures I have been nervous about.

If the price were to rise much, I do not think I would by as much as I do. A $2 rise doesn't seem like much. It just seems like an easier purchase at $10 compared to $12. It is all in my head. It is just easier to justify a $10 purchase. It is still in the impulse buy range.

I am glad they do cut corners to preserve the current price point.

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Old June 13th, 2008, 05:10 PM
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Re: Wave 8 - Shaving costs for saving cash

I'd place a good wager that the figure quality has more to do with the new molds than anything else. Likely the new molds use a new kind of plastic that isn't quite as hard.

Does it cost less? Probably. Is it all bad? Hardly. The new molds are responsible for the increased figure detail that we've started to see since Wave 6. Likely the only way they can get this kind of detail is with a softer plastic that sets into finer crevices.

There's of course, other benefits. Most notably, while things bend easier, they seem to bend BACK a whole lot easier as well. It took me about 5 minutes to realign my 10th rifles, but I've never been able to fix Jotun's sword. Really, all in all its just different. Not necessarily better or worse, though given that it also likely keeps costs down despite the overwhelm cost of oil, I'd say in the end we both come out ahead.
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