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  #241  
Old February 16th, 2007, 12:37 PM
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Sweetcurse Sweetcurse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonShiva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finrod
Well, actually, it's OCCUM'S Razor.

And yea, I'll go with the simplest explanation.

Hasbro targets this game at 8-11 year-old boys.
Hasbro thinks Master Sets are a one-time purchase.
The previous Master Set had ONLY uniques.

Therefore, the simplest explanation is: There will be no commons in this set.
Funny thing is, it's neither. Either Ocaam's or Ockham's, depending if you want the modern spelling of his name or not.

That said, I agree with Finrod: while I reserve some room for the unlikely possibility that there would be commons in that MS, the wrongness of Sweetcurse's misuse of the razor approaches that of physics teachers with Schrödinger's cat :

Sweetcurse, you need more unproven assumptions to make your case than we need to counter it. That's precisely what the razor is all about not doing.

Applying the razor correctly: Hasbro doesn't mix uniques and commons -- therefore, this will be all uniques. Single unproven assumption, and it has overwhelming empirical evidence supporting it.

Neither of your assumptions is yet proven, and there's an underlying one that you didn't mention : that the set is supposed to actually contain the entirety of said swarm by itself. I did not notice Raelin actually rising in the first MS.

Also, you're assuming that the pictures are representative of the final MS composition, which is another unproven assumption, though I would tend to believe it likely.

It remains possible that they may be commons, but please don't drag poor William (of Ockham) into it under false pretense.
It's actually Occam's, not Ocaams. Now that name turned into a headache!

As for the rest, if you eliminate all baggage from the first MS and simply consider that the game has many common squads that use the same sculpts, and then look at the picture in the back of SOTM and see the Marro having two of the same sculpt , then the most logical explanation is that they are common. Everything else seems rather complex for explanations.

Having two sets of commons in the MS does not force you to buy more Master Sets. Two squads is plenty for most common units if you play in the typical 4-500 point range. Unless they are like 40 point common squads, and even then it's not so bad.

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  #242  
Old February 16th, 2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetcurse
As for the rest, if you eliminate all baggage from the first MS and simply consider that the game has many common squads that use the same sculpts, and then look at the picture in the back of SOTM and see the Marro having two of the same sculpt , then the most logical explanation is that they are common. Everything else seems rather complex for explanations.
If you ignore all of the opposing evidence, all of the evidence clearly points in only one direction. Who would have thought?

For the record though, I also happen to think that they are likely to be common and that 2 sets of commons is enough so that people aren't so likely to complain about needing to buy more. The kind of people that buy more than 2 of a given common are also the kind of people that would be buying more than one of these anyway, and for them it's a great deal because they get their extra commons and their extra terrain with less wasted duplicate product. However, the fact that this is a prototype box makes me rather hesitant to expect anything. Maybe, for example, there are a couple more squads coming out that weren't ready in time for the box photos and that is why there are duplicate figures.
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  #243  
Old February 16th, 2007, 02:00 PM
JIrish780 JIrish780 is offline
 
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My take on the whole thing? We're not going to know for sure until we see something official from Hasbro themselves, or, in a worst case scenareo, have the thing in our hands. I can honestly see both sides here, but there's so much Heroscape I don't even own yet that I'm not very concerned.

Samurai, check... Spider-Man, check... Ice Dragon, check... Dwarves, che- waitasec!
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  #244  
Old February 16th, 2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjib
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetcurse
As for the rest, if you eliminate all baggage from the first MS and simply consider that the game has many common squads that use the same sculpts, and then look at the picture in the back of SOTM and see the Marro having two of the same sculpt , then the most logical explanation is that they are common. Everything else seems rather complex for explanations.
If you ignore all of the opposing evidence, all of the evidence clearly points in only one direction. Who would have thought?
I dind't mean it like that. I meant that just because the old MS had only uniques doesn't mean the new MS must also be all uniques. Specially if they give us two of each.

It's just that it seems so simple to me. All the other options I've read as to why there are two of each sculpt sound too complicated . I'm not saying commons IS defintely the explanation, it just seems like a moresimple and likely explanation.

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  #245  
Old February 16th, 2007, 05:34 PM
zerombr zerombr is offline
 
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here is my prediction....


Ne-Gok-Sa, with his full onslaught of Marro forces will claim the Valkyrie's power for his own, renouncing Utgar and becoming his own force commander, causing Utgar to rely more heavily on Demons/Undead
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  #246  
Old February 16th, 2007, 08:54 PM
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My question with new set containing the new Drake and Raelin is:

If they were going to re-make any of the figures.....
why didn't they re-make the one we would have all like to have seen re-made:

TAELORD!

(I understand they didn't make new stats for Rae or Drake but this seemed to be a good chance for the change - yes?).
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  #247  
Old February 16th, 2007, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
My question with new set containing the new Drake and Raelin is:

If they were going to re-make any of the figures.....
why didn't they re-make the one we would have all like to have seen re-made:

TAELORD!

(I understand they didn't make new stats for Rae or Drake but this seemed to be a good chance for the change - yes?).
we don't know that they didn't remake sets.

Theophilus.
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  #248  
Old February 16th, 2007, 10:53 PM
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Theats, between your avatar and Craig's comments on the podcast, I think wave 8 is going to have a penguin set - pirates and machinegunners.
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  #249  
Old February 16th, 2007, 11:06 PM
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Sweetcurse Sweetcurse is offline
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Every time I hear "penguins with machine guns" I think of Batman Returns...shudder.

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  #250  
Old February 16th, 2007, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetcurse
Every time I hear "penguins with machine guns" I think of Batman Returns...shudder.
That's not fair! Those penguins had BOMBS!

Wait...does that mean there's going to be a wave 9?
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  #251  
Old February 17th, 2007, 09:26 AM
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MYmeagerPREDICTIONS

Perhaps they'll up Raelin's cost and give her Stealth Flying.
I can't see increasing her Aura range and I just don't believe they'd toss in
two original MS figures with new sculpts without changes to abilities/stats/price.

I think Drake will be able to move and use his Improved Grapple Gun at the same time.
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  #252  
Old February 17th, 2007, 09:46 AM
ArchonShiva ArchonShiva is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetcurse
It's actually Occam's, not Ocaams.
Yeah, that one ws an actual typo. Pretty bad time to have a typo, though. Well, I was first to get one correct spelling! ^_^

As for the rest, I strongly propose we agree on this:

1. There are definitely hints both ways.

2. All of these hints can be discounted using quite reasonable counter-arguments.

3. We won't know for sure until we get an official answer, though any changes the next time we see SotM may strongly reinforce either position.

That said, it remains my contention (though I'm willing to stop calling it the most reasonable conslusion) that since the first pics we got of Wave 1 has Runa in it, the presence of multiple similar figures on the prototype box really doesn't mean much at all.

For the record, I don't actually care either way. Since I'm gonna buy at least two anyway, I'll have plenty of the commons in question.

Packing a set of Drones in there would have been a good idea, perhaps.

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