The Pre-SoV Workshop

[bmon]

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Id be tempted to run a power of Illusion creation as automatic after taking a turn with Janna

This.

You could even weaken it by only allowing it if unengaged. Thematically it would be as if he has the attention to conjure a new image by not being engaged in battle. Mechanically it would make for interesting decisions in swapping positions with the images and also on betting on his attack clearing out enemies to be able to conjure.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Tai-Pan

Ever play Arena of the Planeswalkers with these figures? The power of swapping the Illusions with the Master is pulled from there.

@Kinseth , interesting ideas. I will check them out. I think Jinn Nasha becomes too powerful with Range and I think 2 defense Illusions also pushes the power up (they are already sufficiently protected with no sight zones for ranged attacks), but I'm up for trying it.

I have yet to play Arena of the Planeswalkers, although I did manage to pick up a copy of the first Master Set. I actually hadn't looked through the minis enough yet to notice that there was a squad of Jace Beleren look-alikes, so this was a really pleasant surprise.

I still feel that Jinn (both in sculpt and in design) is more suited to range. While he will of course become more powerful, he only has a couple of illusions to protect himself, each of which will easily be killed. If he performs too well with range, then I think that his defense should be toned down a little to compensate (whether that be limiting Just an Illusion to non-adjacent attacks only, or decreasing his defense to 2 to make him truly dependent on his illusions to survive).

Giving him a short ranged attack (either 3 or 4 would feel unique, in my opinion) also does more to distinguish Recurring Illusions from Zombies Rise Again, Bloodborn Rising, and even Life Drain. I don't know of many kill-to-gain powers that have a ranged component, and it would make the Illusion revival feel more distinct and tricky. Looking at the current iteration of Recurring Illusions, it feels like I've seen it before, but letting him potentially disrupt formations to revive your figures further away feels new and potentially exciting.

Even with Recurring Illusions working automatically or after taking Jinn's turn, though, I think that Jinn would be more fun and thematic to play with a little bit of range.

Originally Posted by Kinseth

@Tai-Pan

My thoughts

Give the illusions 2 defense - Don't see why they should die so quickly, they feel "Real"...

I actually really like that the Deadly Illusions only have 0 defense. It feels different, flavorful, and fitting here, although I also like how they have no visible hit zones. At most, I think that they should have 1 defense, but I really like having a unit with no defense other than the Vipers.

@ollie does have a very good point, though. I didn't think about it earlier, but if the idea is that the illusions are indistinguishable from Jinn Nasha, then why can only one of the two not be targeted from range?

I'd also suggest the following wording changes to separate the powers a little better. The top would go on Jinn Nasha, the bottom on the Deadly Illusions:

Master of Illusions
Before taking a turn with Jinn Nasha, you may switch Jinn Nasha with any Illusion that you control. When Jinn Nasha destroys an opponent's figure, you may replace that figure immediately, if possible, with one of your own previously destroyed Illusions.

Shifting Illusions
After taking a turn with an Illusionist that you control, you may move the Deadly Illusions up to 5 spaces each.

Master of Illusions becomes a reusable and generic power to let other Illusionists be designed in the future, while the Deadly Illusions still retain their movement bonding and repositioning capabilities (without needing to worry about Jinn giving this bonus to every illusion squad designed from now on).

Shifting Illusions (or whatever name you decide on) could easily be changed to be reliant solely on Jinn Nasha again, since the Deadly Illusions are specifically his look-alikes, but I personally like the idea of a little mini illusion faction becoming a thing. Mixing and matching illusions and illusionists sounds like it could be great fun.

[bmon]

Illusions and magic trucks are all about being in the right place and perspective to be fooled by them. I personally find it easy to believe some illusions can be invisible at a distance, but can fool you up close.

[superfrog]

I just wanted to pop in and say that with a ranged attack, the "kill to create an Illusion" makes more sense. It's like Jinn Nasha is casting a spell that turns the figure into an illusion. With a melee attack it seems more of a manual/brute force attack, which obscures the theme.

[Pumpkin_King]

Yeah, the mini very much seems ranged, that was my immediate reaction. This is s really good idea though.

[Tai-Pan]

Can you extrapolate the point with ranged?

My interpretation was that he has kind of magic blades (I know it is a ranged figure in aotp, but looks less range-like than other planeswalkers)

[Pumpkin_King]

For me it’s easier to take him as a ranged spellcaster than a magic using melee fighter. Frostcarver looks like a melee dude, and even he has a small ranged attack. It’s just how he looks.

[superfrog]

Any thoughts as to whether this figure works as an Icarian? I think he does, especially with the eye accessories, but he's definitely more blue than the Nhah Scirh Cultists.

[Astroking112]

He wouldn't bother me as an Icarian at all, especially when we have figures like Kelda, Taelord, and Concan all sharing the same species. The only potential problem that I could see would be saying that he's a part of the same Nhah Scirh cult (since his clothing style is also different), but we've never seen confirmation that all Icarians look the same anyway.

[Dad_Scaper]

I love the mini. I have no problem with him being Icaran. That doesn't mean he's precisely the same race or species or whatever as the Nhah Scirh Cultists.

[caps]

I like him as an Icarian. I would even be okay with him somehow tied to the nhah scirh. Perhaps not directly, though.

[The Dewk]

I think that's an excellent figure for an Icarian, and I don't think it would be a stretch at all to have him be part of the same cult as the Nhah Skirh Cultists, if desired. Nhah Skirh Assassin. Nhah Skirh Berserker. Some unique hero. Good find!