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Old June 5th, 2009, 03:44 PM
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Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

At the risk of causing an annoyance, I've decided to post my own power rankings. Why? Because I'm arrogant enough to think people will follow mine over spider_poison's? Because I want to waste bandwidth space? Because I want to rate Runa as an A+? No - because I have some time on my hands right now, the power rankings seem to be under discussion and I figured it wouldn't hurt to have another opinion out there who has a different style of play. (and for damja)

Bear this in mind - I'm not a 2-time Main Event GenCon champion. I'm just a beast . I don't think I'm as good a player as spider_poison, or the other players that most scapers put into the "top-tier". I'm just a guy that likes to think about the game, try out different units and usually play my armies a bit "faster" than other players. I value versatility more than I think some other players do. I am always thinking in terms of tournament play, and am considering each unit in their maximum potential. I don't have much sympathy at all for bad or obsolete units (except a couple of special ones), and I considered possible substitutes into their ranking. If a unit has a lot of better substitutes for around the same point cost, they got bumped down.

Yes - I copied and pasted spider_poison's list as a place to start. It seemed stupid not to. Also, instead of listing my units in alphabetical order, I just went the whole hog (that's my new favorite phrase) and listed them in the order I believe their strength to be within that tier.

I also took out the Marvel - I don't really feel right ranking it with Classic Scape. However, the rankings now include Wave 9:

A+

Fortress Door (0)
Deathreavers (40*)
Major Q9 (180)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80)

A

4th Mass. Line (70*)
Marro Stingers (60*)
Blastatrons (60*)
Gladiatrons (80*)
Nilfheim (185)
Major Q10 (150)
Krav Maga Agents (100)
Laglor (110)
Sir Gilbert (105)
Knights of Weston(70*)
10th Regiment of Foot (75*)
Braxas (210)
Grimnak (120)
Isamu (10)
Marcu Esenwein (20)
Marro Warriors (50)

A-

Heavy Gruts (70*)
Minions of Utgar (110*)
Airborne Elite (110)
Kaemon Awa(120)
Krug (120)
Zelrig (185)
Atlaga (90)
Othkurik the Black Dragon (140)
Zetacron (60)
Agent Skahen (120)
Alastair MacDirk (110)
Darrak Ambershard (60)
Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30)
Me-Burq-Sa (50)
killercactus (wouldn't you like to know)

B+
Tor-Kul-Na (220)
Microcorp Agents (100*)
Marcus Decimus Gallus (100)
Axegrinders of the Burning Forge (70*)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170)
Migol Ironwill (110*)
Crixus (90)
Sentinels of Jandar (110*)
Cyprien Esenwein (150)
Sonya Esenwein (45)
Marro Dividers (50*)
Nakita Agents (120)
Arkmer (50)
Brave Arrow (50)
Aubrien Archers (70*)
Protectors of Ullar (110*)
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50)
Roman Legionnaires (50*)

B
Mohican River Tribe (70*)
Arrow Gruts (40*)
Swog Rider (25*)
Marrden Nagrubs (30*)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120)
Capuan Gladiators (70*)
Spartacus (200)
Granite Guardians (100*)
Sacred Band (50*)
Blade Gruts (40*)
Guilty McCreech (30)
Marrden Hounds (90*)
Quasatch Hunters (100*)
Feral Troll (90*)
Brunak (110)
Charos (210)
Deepwyrm Drow (70*)
Marro Drones (50*)
Marro Hive (160)
Ne-Gok-Sa (90)
Sonlen (160)
Finn the Viking Champion (80)
Retiarius (90)
Tagawa Samurai (120)
Omnicron Snipers (100*)
Omnicron Repulsors (40*)
Venoc Warlord (120)
Venoc Vipers (40*)
Deathwalker 8000 (130)
Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80)
Theracus (40)
Zombies of Morindan (60*)


B-
Warden 816 (90)
Valguard (110)
James Murphy (75)
Su-Bak-Na (160)
Ulginesh (150)
Chardris (90)
Emirroon (80)
Jorhdawn (100)
Kyntela Gwyn (20)
Syvarris (100)
Sir Hawthorne (90)
Fyorlag Spiders (40*)
Sujoah (185)
Tornak (100)
Kato Katsuro (200)
Ashigaru Harquebus (60*)
Ashigaru Yari (40*)
Mimring (150)
Ana Karithon (100)
Sir Dupuis (150)
Kozuke Samurai (100)
Anubian Wolves (75*)
Ornak (100)
Otonashi (10)
MacDirk Warriors (80*)
Wolves of Badru (80*)
Taelord the Kyrie Warrior (180)
Agent Carr (100)
Jotun (225)
Kee-Mo-Shi (130)
Izumi Samurai (60)
Ninjas of the Northern Wind (110)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110)
Wo-Sa-Ga (135)

C+

Tarn Viking Warriors (50)
Iskra Esenwein (50)
Rechets of Bogdan (50)
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Master Win Chiu Woo (140)
Tandros Kreel (120)
Armoc Vipers (65*)
Tagawa Samurai Archers (65*)
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (65)
Shades of Bleakewoode (100*)
Deathwalker 9000 (140)
Tul-Bak-Ra (130)
Dzu-Teh (75*)
Gurei-Oni (100)

C

Roman Archers (55*)
Marro Drudge (50*)
Kumiko (80)
Deadeye Dan (60)
Dumutef Guard (25*)
Elite Onyx Vipers (100)
Sir Denrick (100)
Warriors of Ashra (50*)
Runa (120)
Zettian Guards (70)
Gorillinators (90*)
Erevan Sunshadow (80)
Sudema (140)
Deathwalker 7000 (100)
Morsbane (100)
Acolarh (110)
Deathstalkers (100*)

C-

Shaolin Monks (80*)
Khosumet the Darklord (75)
Parmenio (90)
Kelda the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior (80)

D+

Templar Cavalry (120*)
Grok Riders (130*)
DŁnd (110)
Obsidian Guards (100*)
Shiori (60)
Empress Kiova (90)

D

The Einar Imperium (140*)
Moriko (110)
Pelloth (100)
Major X17(100)

D-



F

Hatamoto Taro (130)

Average Rankings per General (based on a 4-3-2-1-0 point system, with +'s and -'s worth .25 points) (Needs updated for Wave 9)

- 3.12 - B+ average. 17 Units
- 3.02 - B average. 25 Units
- 2.85 - B- average. 49 Units
- 2.75 - B- average. 3 Units
- 2.57 - C+ average. 23 Units
- 2.44 - C+ average. 26 Units

I'll address the big movers first... you'll notice the A+ tier is much thinner in general. I almost even moved Q9 down to A, but his versatility and survivability are top-notch.

Raelin - many have heard me as of late proclaiming that she's overrated. This will be the biggest gripe with my list easily. However, I hold that she's not all that great when protecting squad figures, and only a little better when protecting heroes. Shields are hard to roll. Next time you play her, use two different colored dice to represent her aura and see how much she really helps. She does have great synergy with some defensive abilities, and is still very versatile. However, I really tend to favor offense over defense.

4th Mass - I don't think the Mass are versatile enough to be the best of this game. Yes, they make up their own army, but it's not as synergistic as the Trons are, and I think it's more beatable (unless you're opponent has Repulsors). Plus, they restrict you (albeit slightly) in choosing units to go with them. Still one of the top armies, though.

Stingers - The Stingers are very strong with their base stats and cheap price tag, but 3 attacks per turn should put them down lower. True, it lets them work in with Deathreavers a little better, but I think Q9, Trons and Mass are all stronger than them. However, the threat of Repulsors jumps them back ahead of the Trons (for now).

Tor-Kul-Na - I really like how versatile he is for a melee hero. He deals with both squads and heroes very well, can heal himself, and he bonds.

Cyprien / Sonya - I think this duo is overrated. Only 2 attacks per Order Marker, no range, and a weakness against Soulborgs really knock them down IMO.

Kaemon Awa - I'm probably liable to take a little flak for this one too, but 4 Life and 4 Defense, no bonding and only 2 attacks out of an OM for 120 points doesn't do it for me as much as others. Sure, he's great at cleanup and has a nice Special Attack, but I had to drop him down.

Heavy Gruts / Grimnak - I really think this bonding combo is better than people think. 4 defense for everyone (if you stay adjacent or have Nerak), Disengage and 6 attacks (one an auto-kill) out of an Order Marker is pretty strong. Knights are still better, though.

Deathwalker 8000 - I moved this guy up quite a bit. His Special Attack can be very strong against squads (and some heroes) and, with some blockers, I think he can be better than people think.

Runa - Yes, I moved her up some. If you don't know why, then you haven't read very many of my posts. Click the link in my sig.

Fortress Door - If you're defending a castle, you're a complete idiot not to have the Fortress Door. It doesn't cost any points, has insane life, ridiculous defensive abilities, and can be opened or closed anytime during your turn just by having any figure on the right space behind it.

Marro Warriors / Zetacron - After some debate in this thread about their uses and strengths, I moved these two units a bit. The Marro are more versatile than Z, and those multiple attacks and increased survivability can really come in handy.

Well, there you have it. Let the tear down begin!

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Last edited by killercactus; February 8th, 2010 at 11:33 AM.
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  #2  
Old June 5th, 2009, 03:59 PM
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Re: Another Scaper's Opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
A
Marro Stingers (60*)
You downgraded the Stingers?! I hate it already.*


Seriously, though, and with no disrespect to spider_poison, I think that it is valuable to have a few different viewpoints on unit power rankings. I think that it would be worth it for there to be several of these collected together, but there would need to be some sort of standardization and qualification process, so that some joe-schmoe like me who's in love with DED (don't tell my wife, please) gives him a solid A, confusing newbs everywhere. I'd +rep you, but you just got my most recent rep, so I'll hit you when I can.


*And yes, I did read your "explanation" at the bottom.

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  #3  
Old June 5th, 2009, 04:05 PM
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Re: Another Scaper's Opinion

There are no huge surprises here.

I assume that these do not incorporate wave 9 influences. Otherwise, I would have thought that Glads/Blasts might have been lower and Spartacus (and Crixus) would have been higher.

Does anyone really play Arkmer in a tournament? I think he's the best value among the elves, but he's tough to play without other elves. Without elves, I'd rather have the Tarns (assuming enough spaces) or several other choices.

Would anyone actually play Sir Dupuis? You only gave him a B- but even that's hard to imagine.

The biggest surprise... You only gave Runa a C?

Finally, are these different enough to need a new ranking?
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  #4  
Old June 5th, 2009, 04:07 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

I agree on TKN; he's been my new favorite lately. I also agree that Heavy Gruts are a good option. They're the only bonding melee army not afraid of rats, and that counts for something.

Cyprien(/Sonya)'s appeal is his ability to pick his opponent, and the fact that his kills make him stronger. Still, B+ is defensible for them.

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Old June 5th, 2009, 04:09 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

Hmm...

I would have suspected Runa to be placed a bit higher than a C.
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  #6  
Old June 5th, 2009, 04:12 PM
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killercactus killercactus is offline
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Re: Another Scaper's Opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
There are no huge surprises here.
Awesome - I didn't want there to be. Though, I think most people will consider where I scored Raelin a "huge surprise".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10
I assume that these do not incorporate wave 9 influences. Otherwise, I would have thought that Glads/Blasts might have been lower and Spartacus (and Crixus) would have been higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus at the top of the page
These rankings do not include Wave 9, nor the effects it will have on the other units. If anyone actually cares about these rankings, I'll update them when those units make their impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
Does anyone really play Arkmer in a tournament? I think he's the best value among the elves, but he's tough to play without other elves. Without elves, I'd rather have the Tarns (assuming enough spaces) or several other choices.
I agree. I thought very hard about moving him down where the other elves are. Then I thought "Until Brave Arrow comes out, he's the best 50 points you can get out of one hex."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
Would anyone actually play Sir Dupuis? You only gave him a B- but even that's hard to imagine.
I think he's a bit underrated generally. The Knights of Weston are ranked high enough that I think he should be given a bit more respect. He's going to be throwing 6-7 attack dice most of the time, has great movement, all of the Large immunities and good life and defense (at least once he's wounded).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
The biggest surprise... You only gave Runa a C?
I wanted to keep it somewhat serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
Finally, are these different enough to need a new ranking?
No. It's just a slightly different take on things. I don't expect them to be stickied atop the Competitive Armies Forum. spider's rankings have been around long enough that they're accepted as the norm, and they should be. This is just in response to the idea that a different opinion wouldn't hurt too badly.

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Old June 5th, 2009, 04:23 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

For whatever it's worth (not much), I like this. Thanks for posting it. I think it could be good to have a few different Scapers give rankings and average them out... sort of how they do in Fantasy Football. However, as Killometer pointed out, there would have to be some requirements in place for selecting the rankers.

I have another theory with the Power Rankings too, which is this: Some rankings reflect the ability of the ranker to best utilize the units.

This is why I'm glad Spider_Poison takes other players' opinions into account, and why I think it's good you clarified your playing style.
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Old June 5th, 2009, 08:37 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

Nice to see another point of view. I was half expecting to see Runa at an A...
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Old June 5th, 2009, 09:09 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

The Raelin thing really doesn't surprise me given your recent posts about her. I still think of her as the best figure in the game, but maybe I should try out your two color defense dice idea.

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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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Old June 5th, 2009, 10:19 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

Realin isn't that great, huh? I'll definetly mix in two Jandar dice when using her aura next time.
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Old June 5th, 2009, 11:46 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

Interesting rankings. The unit I would most argue with is probably Deathreavers at A+. Fielding many of them ties up alot of start zone spaces which then leaves you having to field more expensive heroes and squads which is a risk since you are more susceptible to a bad roll of the dice. They also are of lesser value in tournaments that do not use glyphs.

I think the 2 most feared units are Q9 and 4th Mass. A tough Q9 army might be the only army that tons of 4th Mass cannot consistently beat
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Old June 5th, 2009, 11:59 PM
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Re: Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

I like the raising of Heavy Gruts/Grimnak. In fact I'm a much bigger fan of Heavy Gruts now then of Arrow Gruts. When combined with Nerak/Raelin/Grimnak/Tornak the Gruts themselves are really tough to kill.

The army itself is pretty good against Knights and Stingers while it suffers a lot against Vydar Range and Blast/Glads. It is also very strong against the Deathreaver/Hero based armies.




Sidenote - I also think I like Raelin and Saylind a lot more then you do.

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Last edited by MattserTruckRally; June 6th, 2009 at 12:12 AM.
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