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Old August 10th, 2006, 12:52 PM
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Fallen Templar Fallen Templar is offline
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Starship Troopers

What do everyone think of the book, movie [their not based on each other] and it Militristic views of society at large.

"The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous."- Niccolo Machiavelli


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Old August 10th, 2006, 01:17 PM
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Re: Starship Troopers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Templar
What do everyone think of the book, movie [their not based on each other] and it Militristic views of society at large.
Why do you say that the movie is not based on the book?
Yes, the movie is bad, bad, bad, and it bears little resemblance to the book, but it was at least superficially based on the novel.

Here is a very good essay on Heinlein's philosophies, misconceptions about the book, and the differences between the book and the movie:
http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm

I loved the book when I was a kid.
I have the Starship Trooper's board game. It was my very first wargame.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 01:36 PM
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Re: Starship Troopers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentX-127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Templar
What do everyone think of the book, movie [their not based on each other] and it Militristic views of society at large.
Why do you say that the movie is not based on the book?
Yes, the movie is bad, bad, bad, and it bears little resemblance to the book, but it was at least superficially based on the novel.

Here is a very good essay on Heinlein's philosophies, misconceptions about the book, and the differences between the book and the movie:
http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm

I loved the book when I was a kid.
I have the Starship Trooper's board game. It was my very first wargame.
I say that because I thought the movie was very bad and my comment was ment to be sarcastic

"The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous."- Niccolo Machiavelli


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Old August 10th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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I loved the book, but yeah the movie wasn't the book at all. I found it kinda funny, though, because of the blatant stupidity, violence, and rash action the movie portrayed. Really kind of a satire on modern society.

But the book was excellent, and it prompted me to wonder how our world were different if citizenship had to be earned.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 03:22 AM
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funny thing the german version is forbidden , because blood and gore.
but one thing is total different from the us version.
you know that st remains the 3rd reich and so the german version has change the back ground story and the thing why all young want to be soldiers.
here ist the story look the chane dialos, the first bug war and historical changes a bomb on washington. wtf.
Quote:
No run time difference, there Synchrozensur

When the motion picture film “Starship Troopers” came into Germany into the cinemas, the degree at the act of violence was surprisingly high. Originally the lender intended Buena Vista to cut and starting from 16 release let the film around 10 minutes. However the FSK of this cut version had refused those of 16 to release, and so the SciFi Kracher came unabridged into the German cinemas. It still exists no FSK 16-Version of “Starship Troopers”. However this film was not exempted from Paul Verhoeven also in the unabridged version from German censorship.

With the idea of a functioning faschistoiden society, so much these by sow-Irish “advertising tracing” one verulkt, the lender had become probably somewhat mulmig. Therefore with the synchronisation many places critical in the ideological sense were defused. Brought it nevertheless nothing, since the film landed nevertheless on the index of the BPjS.

Disappeared the whole idea that only soldiers in the social order of “Starship Troopers” are considered as adequate citizens (in the OV for “soldier” the word “Citizen” is used as synonym). Some further “harder” statements were smooth-ironed likewise. The film became even an explaining text board upstream, in which to the book by Heinlein one refers.

All the more annoying is it, since the synchronisation of “Starship Troopers” is extremely hear worth actually, and a clear plus in the comparison to the OV offers. Special drop: as a newscaster Egon Hoegen was engaged, its dry sarkastische voice from training transmissions like “the 7. Sense” admits is, and which revalued recently also beads like “stacker driver Klaus”. Sayings, like “the whole brain weggelutscht”, spoken of Joachim Kerzel as synchronous speakers of Michael Ironside, enjoy in the meantime cult status.

The DVD offers both the unzensierte American, and the censored German clay-purely. During the Special edition it is still added that German sub-titles show the unzensierten dialogues; the sub-titles for hearing-impaired ones are based however on the censored German version.

In the following in a general manner amended dialogues are specified and commentated. Italically literal translations are marked by dialogues.



0:00: 00, after black screen
OV:
Credit “Buena Vista international”
Data processing:
Here the following explanation text was added:
“In its 1959 published classical Science Fiction novel “Starship Troopers” Robert Heinlein assumed mankind in the future was governed by a military authority”.

This Intro is to probably manufacture the purchase to the “classical Sci Fi novel” from Heinlein - to have around as it were a Persilschein for the represented political situation in the film - like that was it in the book.







0:00: 49
OV:
Speaker: “Join the mobile Infantry and save the world. Service of guarantees Citizenship.”
Data processing:
Speaker: To “the mobile infantry and you fight stepping you for the future.”

Here a large deviation of the data processing from OV is to be seen to. In the original version only soldiers are adequate citizens - contrary to civilians. In the German version this was removed. Let us note outer-ground that for time reasons to that wonderful to plate “save the fights to saying world” through “you for the future” was replaced.
Ironically “you stands for citizens on the German Cover of the video cassette! ”…



0:03: 02
OV:
Rasczak: “This year incoming goods explored the failure OF democracy, how the social scientists brought our world ton the brink OF chaos. Incoming goods talked about the of veteran, how they took control and imposed the stability that has lasted for generation since.”

(

Data processing:
Rasczak: “Our topic was this year the political development of the turn of the century. And like extraterrestial this development affected. We spoke the earth about nose, like them attacked and thousand of our ancestors death brought.”

The scene in the school teaching is to most interactive censored scene. In the original version the democrats brought the world to the edge of the chaos, until the government was finally taken over by war veterans and the situation stabilized. In the data processing instead a “first nose war” invented. “Failure of the democracy” and “control war veterans” the lender a too hot iron was supposed.



0:03: 21
OV:
Rasczak: “You. Why of acres only citizens allowed tons vote?”
Pupil: “It `s A reward. What the Federation of gives you for doing Federal service.”
Rasczak: “No. No. Something given has NO VALUE. Look, when you vote, you acres excercising political authority, you acres using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all OTHER authority is derived.”

(

Data processing:
Rasczak: “Why is it meaningful to carry military service out?”
Pupil: “It is an honor. The federation recompences everything, those in the troop served.”
Ranszcak: “No, no. Because obligation consciousness is the keyword. If you served, provide for our planetary security. They protect the community. And the means in addition, friends, is called force. And naked force is the only one, which we can oppose nose.”

The censorship at the school continues. From the OV experience we the fact that only the citizens (=Soldaten) are enfranchised. And that political power is a subspecies of highest power, which is called force.
In the data processing however the right to vote of the soldiers is concealed; instead the question is replaced by a completely different one. Force is mentioned, but only as protecting Kraft, which are there only for the protection of “planetary security”.



0:03: 44
OV:
Flores: “Uh, my more mother always said, violence more never solves anything.”
Rasczak: “Really? I more wonder what the town center fathers OF Hiroshima would say about that. You.”
Carmen: “They probably wouldn `t say anything. Hiroshima which destroyed.”
Rasczak: “Correct. Naked force has resolved more issues throughout history, than any OTHER factor. The contrary opinion, that violence more never solves anything, is wishful thinking RK its worst. People who forget that always pay.”

(

Data processing:
Flores: “Äh, my nut/mother says that force can never solve somewhat.”
Rasczak: “Real? Would like to know too gladly, what the citizens would say from Washington to it? It.”
Carmen: “Those probably would not say nothing at all to it. Washington was destroyed in the first nose war.”
Rasczak: “Very correctly. By unconditional force nose were struck back at that time and mankind saved. And with the attitude that force can never solve somewhat, one comes not far! Pure wishful thinking! Humans, who forget, will always pay for it.”

Here is one of the most remarkable censorship places: Hiroshima was replaced by Washington. It was probably too zynisch. In the data processing instead again the mysteriöse first nose war responded.



0:04: 13
OV:
Rasczak: “Rico, what `s the moral difference, if any, between A civilian and A citizen?”
Rico: “A citizen accepts personal responsibility for the safety OF the body politic, defending it with his life. A civilian does emergency.”



Data processing:
Rasczak: “Rico, wherein the political difference between soldiers and civilians lies?”
Rico: “A soldier takes personal responsibility for the security of the earth. It defends it with its life. A civilian does not do that.”

Here the difference is marginal, but nevertheless important. With the OV concerns it a moral difference. Citizen its is morally correct, because one defends the policy of the state with its life. In the data processing it concerns a political difference - and one defends not the policy, but the security of the earth. In the data processing the motive is a nobler, than i.e. in the OV, for Soldatsein, the defense of the civilians, children, earth population. That pulls itself by the entire dialogue book.



0:04: 27
Rasczak: “But DO you and-arose it? DO you believe it?”
Rico: “I don `t know.”
Rasczak: “OF course you don `t. I doubt anyone here would recognize civic virtue if it reached UP and bit you into the ASS.”

Data processing:
Rasczak: “However you understand also? Are you ready for it?”
Rico: “I do not know.
Rasczak: “Natural do not know you `s. And probably nobody would defend our children here, even if them a nose bites into the ass!”

In this scene it concerns that the teacher wants that the pupils also believe, what it had learned: the value of a citizen (civic virtue), which distinguishes the citizen/soldier. In the data processing that again times umgemünzt on the defense of the children.



0:12: 18
OV:
Father: “Have you draws your mind? I `D take ten lashes in Public Square than lake you ruin your life.”

(Data processing:
Father: “Haste you the understanding lost? Before I will say to it “”, I accept loving gladly each punishment.”

Here the public punishment (Auspeit) from the data processing is erased. Ten whip blows at the public place the standard seems to be - that was probably too glaring for the lenders.



0:18: 40
OV:
Loudspeaker announcement: “Welcome ton the adventure OF Federal service.”



Data processing:
Loudspeaker announcement: “Welcomes with the federation service.”

Here the “adventure” is suppressed - federation service is sold propaganda-moderately as adventure.



0:19: 16
OV:
Rico: “I want ton A citizen!”
...
Nut/mother: “Does citizenship mean that much tons you?”

(Data processing:
Rico: “I would like for federation!”
...
Nut/mother: “Is the military service really so important to you?”

Suppress here again times a “citizen”.



0:21: 35
OV:
Speaker: “Citizen rule. People making A more better tomorrow.”

Data processing:
Speaker: “Our children. We must protect it.”

The statement of the German version is somewhat strange, if one considers that the children get weapons and cartridges expenditure-divided. It thereby not protected - to be supposed however at weapons and ammunition for the better future get accustomed - says to us the OV.



0:22: 50
OV:
Zim: “Most OF you wants emergency live ton into the mobile Infantry”

(Data processing:
Zim: “Most of you will not create it, into the mobile infantry to come”

In the data processing the statement was somewhat weakened - which does not become most it to survive to come into M.I.



0:28: 22
OV:
Djana `D: “Oh, I to going in for politics, and, you know, you gotta A citizen for that.”

(

Data processing:
Djana `D: “I would like into the policy, and there it is good, if one served two years.”

And again one must be citizens, in order to advance its political career. In the data processing it is only good to have served.



0:47: 37
OV:
Flores: “Hey, you take that stroll down Washout Lane, you `RH only proving one thing, Johnny.”
Rico: “What `s that, Diz?”
Flores: “That you don `t have what it takes ton A citizen.”

(Data processing:
Flores: “Hey. If you go now through the failure gate, prove only the one, Johnny.”
Rico: “And which would be that?”
Flores: “That you do not have `s simply drauf to be soldier.”

Here times citizen is replaced by a soldier.



0:51: 36
OV:
Speaker: “Everyone is doing their partitions of acres you? The was EFF place needs your EFF place.”

(Data processing:
Speaker: “Also our youngest ones take part. We need your assistance.”

The OV goes on the one hand on the all first advertising spot (“I carry out mean contribution”). Secondly, that is here many more obvious to propaganda: the Appelation to the spectator of the Spots, the Reimen of “was EFF place - your EFF place”. The German version was weakened in this sense.



1:34: 32
OV:
Rico: “Once somebody asked ME if I knew the difference between A citizen and A civilian. I CAN tell you now. A citizen has the courage ton make the safety OF the human race their personal responsibility. Dizzy which my friend. She which A more soldier. But more than that, she which A citizen OF the Federation.”



Data processing:
Rico: “I was times asked whether I know a difference between a soldier and civilians. I know it now. A soldier has to provide the responsibility with its whole Kraft and its life for the security of humans. Dizzy was a good friend. And it was a soldier. But first of all it should be a bright model for us.”

Nothing new at the censorship front. Away is the “human race”, likewise became “citizen of the federation” a “bright model”.



1:54: 02
OV:
Speaker: “Incoming goods need you all. Service of guarantees citizenship.”

Data processing:
Speaker: “We need you all. Fight for the future!”

Here the parallel to the all first advertising BREAK. “Service guarantees citizenry” by to “fights for the future” is replaced.


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