ARV Contest Thread

[Dad_Scaper]

Those dice trays look so sweet in Sir_H's videos. They are a fine, worthy prize for a contest, Trex.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Those dice trays look so sweet in Sir_H's videos. They are a fine, worthy prize for a contest, Trex.

Thank you. It puts a smile on my face whenever I go to a tournament here in Utah/Idaho, and see a sea of my creations being used and loved by most of all the attendees. Also love seeing my stuff pop up in facebook pictures of people playing Scape using my dice rollers.

[Astroking112]

The contest description says that scenarios will not be considered in determining the quality of the map. What does this encompass? If we have an idea that only functions if you have to eliminate the player to your left, for example, will the map be evaluated under those conditions? I have a stupid idea inspiration.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

The contest description says that scenarios will not be considered in determining the quality of the map. What does this encompass? If we have an idea that only functions if you have to eliminate the player to your left, for example, will the map be evaluated under those conditions? I have a stupid idea inspiration.

The idea is for 3 player maps that fit a good balance aka, a fair chance to win for all 3 players. Also keeping the map from being super powerful for certain figures. Otherwise the format doesnt really matter. Ideally a good map should be able to be used for whatever 3 player game you want. Hope that helps. ARV judges feel free to add to what I said.

[Sir Heroscape]

Yeah, kill player to your left is still a game format. Feel free to say something like that in your map instructions as "Optional Gameplay", but for judging we'll just be judging the maps strictly on the build as if you got three players, sat them down and just played a game.

[Cleon]

I've never made a 3-player map before, but I think I'm gonna conjure something up tonight and submit it.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Cleon

I've never made a 3-player map before, but I think I'm gonna conjure something up tonight and submit it.

Look forward to what you come up with.

Also, if this contest wasnt epic enough with the choice of your pick of a dicebowl from that set I made, im going to add another twist. Before the contest is over Ill be updating my trade thread with an assortment of other dice rollers and you will be able to instead pick any one of those that is available at the time if youd rather one of them giving this a super dynamic prize selection.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by TREX

The idea is for 3 player maps that fit a good balance aka, a fair chance to win for all 3 players. Also keeping the map from being super powerful for certain figures. Otherwise the format doesnt really matter. Ideally a good map should be able to be used for whatever 3 player game you want. Hope that helps. ARV judges feel free to add to what I said.

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Yeah, kill player to your left is still a game format. Feel free to say something like that in your map instructions as "Optional Gameplay", but for judging we'll just be judging the maps strictly on the build as if you got three players, sat them down and just played a game.

I think that's a little silly and not as conducive to three player maps as other player counts (for example, Migol's Tomb is an excellent four player map if you do a team of three against one player, regardless of whether you actually use their provided scenario or not, but without any kind of format it doesn't work nearly as well). I can see an argument being made for scenarios not being a part of a map, even if I personally disagree, but designing a map without even being allowed to do a basic format greatly decreases the creative room and will result in much more similar submissions.

This wouldn't really be an issue if you were just looking for simple 3-player maps without needing any extra reading, but I think that it's counterintuitive to the stated goal of creating a good 3-player map repository and this entire statement:

Again, we are not evaluating maps on being tournament worthy. Rather, we are asking the question: Is this a good, fair, and worthwhile 3-player map?

That all said, this is of course the ARV's tournament and you all get to decide how to run it. I just wanted to point out that game scenarios and formats are just as essential to good map design as anything else, if not more so, and trying to cut them out of one of the last mapmaking projects entirely has a negative influence on the state of the game in my eyes. I'll leave it at that and perhaps still submit my stupid idea inspiration, but I feel that it needed to be said.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I think that's a little silly and not as conducive to three player maps as other player counts (for example, Migol's Tomb is an excellent four player map if you do a team of three against one player, regardless of whether you actually use their provided scenario or not, but without any kind of format it doesn't work nearly as well). I can see an argument being made for scenarios not being a part of a map, even if I personally disagree, but designing a map without even being allowed to do a basic format greatly decreases the creative room and will result in much more similar submissions.

This wouldn't really be an issue if you were just looking for simple 3-player maps without needing any extra reading, but I think that it's counterintuitive to the stated goal of creating a good 3-player map repository and this entire statement:

That all said, this is of course the ARV's tournament and you all get to decide how to run it. I just wanted to point out that game scenarios and formats are just as essential to good map design as anything else, if not more so, and trying to cut them out of one of the last mapmaking projects entirely has a negative influence on the state of the game in my eyes. I'll leave it at that and perhaps still submit my stupid idea inspiration, but I feel that it needed to be said.

I think making the maps for a scenario is a awesome idea and not stupid whatsoever. I think what we are saying is that having a map that can be played for multiple formats would be more useful in a broader spectrum. These contests are made to give the community a fun way to express their cartography skills. We are doing this for all scapers to enjoy in a central location. No one is paying me to supplement the prizes either. Its all for the love of the game my man. Get as creative as you like and it will be appreciated. Shoot, put the map in your thread and tag us beforehand so we can check it out.

Edit: and please do put any optional scenarios and suggested formats in the build instructions. Thats just icing on the cake

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by TREX

I think making the maps for a scenario is a awesome idea and not stupid whatsoever. I think what we are saying is that having a map that can be played for multiple formats would be more useful in a broader spectrum. These contests are made to give the community a fun way to express their cartography skills. We are doing this for all scapers to enjoy in a central location. No one is paying me to supplement the prizes either. Its all for the love of the game my man. Get as creative as you like and it will be appreciated. Shoot, put the map in your thread and tag us beforehand so we can check it out.

Edit: and please do put any optional scenarios and suggested formats in the build instructions. Thats just icing on the cake

My apologies, I had been calling my specific idea stupid, not trying to imply that any of the judges were stating that all scenarios are stupid or anything else of the sort. I have a habit of trying to make maps that I've never seen anything like before, and generally there are good reasons for why I haven't seen other people do it yet, which I fully recognize but ignore anyway.

I do appreciate the work that ARV puts into these contests, so I apologize if it seemed like I was ungrateful. I just think that as the biggest remaining mapmaking project, if it's going to work towards good maps of a variety of types beyond just tournament-style ones, it might as well open the doors slightly further and let people get more creative. Not as many people make scenarios or unique formats nowadays, which I think is a pity since it was a huge part of the game, and a large project such as ARV could really help that scene by recognizing it for non-tournament maps, or at least by not excluding it.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

Not as many people make scenarios or unique formats nowadays, which I think is a pity since it was a huge part of the game, and a large project such as ARV could really help that scene by recognizing it for non-tournament maps, or at least by not excluding it.

We're not excluding anything outright, in fact we've already talked about scenario formats and such and we fully intend to do more formats and things like this...but for the scope of THIS current contest, we are just looking for 3-player maps. I think it's safe to say we DO plan on doing other formats where scenarios would be more encouraged/accepted. Have no fear.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

We're not excluding anything outright, in fact we've already talked about scenario formats and such and we fully intend to do more formats and things like this...but for the scope of THIS current contest, we are just looking for 3-player maps. I think it's safe to say we DO plan on doing other formats where scenarios would be more encouraged/accepted. Have no fear.

Perfect. I think that's reasonable enough. Thanks for the reassurance.