The Book of Black Canary (Justice League)

[IAmBatman]

The points are all theoryscape for now, but I'd prefer to avoid 190 points. The designs are plenty different, but I'd want the points to be different as well, ideally, for Black Canary (I) and (III).

[MrNobody]

Yeah, after thinking about it, I’m definitely in favor of the 4 defense as well.

Keeping the Champion callout? Not going to pitch a fit over it, I just recall you saying you were fine with dropping it.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Keeping the Champion callout? Not going to pitch a fit over it, I just recall you saying you were fine with dropping it.

You're trying to leave me with nothing here...

SCREAM QUEEN
Instead of attacking, you may choose up to 3 spaces in a straight line from Black Canary. All enemy figures on or within 1 space of the chosen spaces are affected by Scream Queen. Roll the 20-sided die, adding 1 to your roll for each wounded Unique Hero you control. If you roll 14-18, the chosen figures receive 1 wound. If you roll 19 or higher, the chosen figures receive 2 wounds, and you may remove 1 unrevealed Order Marker at random from each of their Army Cards.

Due to that change it needs to be limited to ones you control, rather than in your army(which would also count the dead), otherwise you're gonna see her cheesed out with a bunch of cheap fodder, and I'd rather not put a max on it.

Also limiting it to enemies. I'd imagine her team would have prepared some tech to avoid the ear blast.

[tcglkn]

He dropped it on one power, I thought he wanted to keep a little bit of Champion synergy which was cool.

[Arkham]

I did. But Nobody hates the Champions.

[Arch-vile]

Count me in as preferring the Champion synergy.

[IAmBatman]

I might be weird, but I slightly prefer the Champion synergy in the first power rather than the second. Definitely makes her much more tied to the faction, but I'm good with that?

[MrNobody]

I guess for me, it's just that the downsides totally outweigh the upsides? There's plenty of incoming synergy to draw her into the Champion web. We now have 6 JL Marker designs, Superboy II, and Supergirl II. (Not to mention the less thematic options like Sif and Allen.) She's going to want to be in a Champion army no matter what, just cause that class has suddenly become decently strong synergy-wise.

But leave the Champion synergy off, and building a Birds of Prey army around her, or even a JLA army that's not majority Champions is that much more valid, and that's a very good thing to me. Leave it on, I feel like I'm being punished for including non-Champions in my Justice League, which isn't really the point of the faction in my eyes.

Like I said, not going to pitch a fit over it, just feels like a very small step in the wrong direction to me. (And I honestly think you could still have her count destroyed Unique Heroes and have the power not push her towards cheap gimmicks. Raph isn't pushed outside of the Turtles faction cause of a +1 on a D20, y'know?) You have my Pre-Yea either way.

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

But leave the Champion synergy off, and building a Birds of Prey army around her, or even a JLA army that's not majority Champions is that much more valid, and that's a very good thing to me. Leave it on, I feel like I'm being punished for including non-Champions in my Justice League, which isn't really the point of the faction in my eyes.

I agree with this statement completely. To my knowledge none of the JL themed designs so far have Champion-specific synergy, so this would be the first to break from the encourage but don't require pattern.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by LordVenoc

I agree with this statement completely. To my knowledge none of the JL themed designs so far have Champion-specific synergy, so this would be the first to break from the encourage but don't require pattern.

That's the statement I mostly disagree with.

You don't want to feel punished for including non-Champions in your Justice League? You're punished for taking any class that isn't shared among the leaders. That's the nature of the beast as a faction in this case. If you take a Scientist and only 1 of your leaders are gaining a marker from a Scientist, you're "punished". Protector, Magician, Queen, Officer etc. there are plenty of examples. That feeling is already ingrained in the faction, and has been from the start.

You can play Black Canary I with Wonder Woman III, a great pairing thanks to Fists of Fury enhanced by WW's boost, but she's not giving her a marker for being drafted, thus you are being "punished".

Why all of a sudden is that same concept here a step too far? Why is that not within the same realm of how the faction built it's foundation on?

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by Arkham

You don't want to feel punished for including non-Champions in your Justice League? You're punished for taking any class that isn't shared among the leaders. That's the nature of the beast as a faction in this case. If you take a Scientist and only 1 of your leaders are gaining a marker from a Scientist, you're "punished". Protector, Magician, Queen, Officer etc. there are plenty of examples. That feeling is already ingrained in the faction, and has been from the start.

You can play Black Canary I with Wonder Woman III, a great pairing thanks to Fists of Fury enhanced by WW's boost, but she's not giving her a marker for being drafted, thus you are being "punished".

Why all of a sudden is that same concept here a step too far? Why is that not within the same realm of how the faction built it's foundation on?

Punished and not rewarded are different things, that we likely have different perspectives on. Black Canary I and Wonder Woman III add up to 500 points. She caps at 3 markers. If you really don't manage to pick 2 other units to give Wonder Woman markers, that's probably on you. Black Canary I not being a Champion doesn't deny her JL boosts. It just prevents her from adding an additional use on a few of the specific cards.

Some choices being technically less rewarding isn't the same thing as some classes being incapable of benefiting, which has never been a part of the faction.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by LordVenoc

Punished and not rewarded are different things, that we likely have different perspectives on. Black Canary I and Wonder Woman III add up to 500 points. She caps at 3 markers. If you really don't manage to pick 2 other units to give Wonder Woman markers, that's probably on you. Black Canary I not being a Champion doesn't deny her JL boosts. It just prevents her from adding an additional use on a few of the specific cards.

Some choices being technically less rewarding isn't the same thing as some classes being incapable of benefiting, which has never been a part of the faction.

And this would be the case of...not being rewarded. What classes are not being benefited by Black Canary III?