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  #181  
Old June 10th, 2021, 10:52 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
What do people think about limiting Tether to opponent's figures? It's the most natural use of the unit and reigns in his rather high potential (which I suspect will raise the unit's price if playtesters work to maximize Tether with friendlies).
This is the key, I think. The unit is more focused and true to its niche as a defender if Tether only works on opponents. Dienekes is probably going to be a drafting figure that you pick for certain situations rather than put in a tournament army, and I think that's a good thing. In the right scenarios, I already think that he'll be quite strong.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the friendly movements increased the price. Putting him on a hill with some ranged squads could be potent and potentially unfun to go against.
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  #182  
Old June 26th, 2021, 01:46 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

PTI, but I think that limiting Tether to opposing figures would be a very good change. I think that Dienekes is already going to be very strong in the right situation, and this helps us focus on his main niche rather than worry about him potentially also being usable for helping to pod ranged figures together on height or something.

I also think that that's the more intuitive use of the power based on the theme the card is presenting, which is worth noting. Obviously that doesn't have to stop us from baking in some other uses for a unit, but I think that the narrower focus suits the defender role really well, and the free movement for friendlies has the ability to drive up the price past what it would normally be.

Edit: I somehow missed that I had already posted about this over two weeks ago. Sorry about that.

Last edited by Astroking112; June 27th, 2021 at 12:06 AM.
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  #183  
Old June 26th, 2021, 02:20 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Agreed, if he pulled up fellow figures he’d be more of a combat leader/general.
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  #184  
Old September 11th, 2021, 12:32 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing



Pinging Pod 1 to see if there are any other thoughts about Scytale's proposal in Post #176.
@lefton4ya @Fakeraistlin @Jaur0n @The Long eared bat

It sounded like most people supported limiting the Tether to opposing figures to hone in on Dienekes' niche as a defender and keep his price down. I think that being able to tether your own figures has a lot of unintuitive uses and would inflate the price of this figure beyond what newer players want, and the design overall is stronger when focused on its core conceit of being a defender.
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  #185  
Old September 12th, 2021, 04:49 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

That's fine by me.

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  #186  
Old September 15th, 2021, 01:38 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

That is fine, as it somewhat reduces OP combo with Cathar Spearman, Nakita Agents, and Motley Max if you could Tether them as well. Also can we change "movement" with "normal move" to prevent uses on things like Warforged Tactical Switch, Granite Guardians Gain High Ground, and other moves besides outside of the movement phase. So to summarize changes would be
Quote:
Tether of Logos
If a small or medium figure opponent moves at least one space and ends its normal movement within 3 clear sight spaces of Dienekes, if it is no more than 3 levels above Dienekes's height or 3 levels below his base, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 7 or higher, place that figure on any same-level space adjacent to Dienekes. If the figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
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  #187  
Old September 15th, 2021, 03:53 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
That is fine, as it somewhat reduces OP combo with Cathar Spearman, Nakita Agents, and Motley Max if you could Tether them as well. Also can we change "movement" with "normal move" to prevent uses on things like Warforged Tactical Switch, Granite Guardians Gain High Ground, and other moves besides outside of the movement phase. So to summarize changes would be
Quote:
Tether of Logos
If a small or medium figure opponent moves at least one space and ends its normal movement within 3 clear sight spaces of Dienekes, if it is no more than 3 levels above Dienekes's height or 3 levels below his base, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 7 or higher, place that figure on any same-level space adjacent to Dienekes. If the figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
I went through the Checklist allowing for all forms of movement to trigger it, but it would be simpler to limit it to normal movement. Things like Movement Bonding and Jandar's Dispatch would bypass it then.
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  #188  
Old September 15th, 2021, 04:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

I just realized, if Tether wasn’t limited to normal movement, couldn’t it trigger itself? For example, if dienekes was adjacent to two Nakiya, he could repeatedly tether the same figure into and out of engagement with each Nakiya.

Or in a 3 player game, two dienekes could engage in a tether of war whenever One of them placed a third players figure within range of the second dienekes.
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  #189  
Old September 15th, 2021, 05:40 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
I just realized, if Tether wasn’t limited to normal movement, couldn’t it trigger itself? For example, if dienekes was adjacent to two Nakiya, he could repeatedly tether the same figure into and out of engagement with each Nakiya.
With a technical reading of it, yes, but it's one of those "obviously doesn't work that way" sort of things that Heroscape does sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Or in a 3 player game, two dienekes could engage in a tether of war whenever One of them placed a third players figure within range of the second dienekes.
That is a more significant concern.
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  #190  
Old September 25th, 2021, 06:03 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Or in a 3 player game, two dienekes could engage in a tether of war whenever One of them placed a third players figure within range of the second dienekes.
That is a more significant concern.

I agree. Perhaps stating a figure can only be affected by a single instance of Tether of Logos per turn is necessary here?

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  #191  
Old September 25th, 2021, 11:16 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Or in a 3 player game, two dienekes could engage in a tether of war whenever One of them placed a third players figure within range of the second dienekes.
That is a more significant concern.

I agree. Perhaps stating a figure can only be affected by a single instance of Tether of Logos per turn is necessary here?
I think just limiting the Tether to only triggering off normal movement should resolve that issue fine (and any other edge cases that might be introduced by future designs).
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  #192  
Old September 25th, 2021, 12:40 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Ran another game today, this time with Dienekes as a screen for some artillery.


A snow and ice map with a highway running through the middle. Valda was on the edge but not used.


My Army:
Dienekes
DW9K
Zettian Infantry x3


vs



LoveElemental:
Dzu Teh x3
Marutuk


425 vs 420 points




I used my first two turns to park Dienekes on a hill with a fair bit of clearing. LoveElemental ran 6 of the yetis towards the far easier path that Dienekes was blocking. When the yetis would end their movement next to a glacier and within 3, I would go ahead and yoink them next to Dienekes so that Deathwalker and the Infantry could fry them on my next turn. This was quite effective, and Dienekes only suffered two wounds from Yeti attacks. When Marutuk came to play, I had Deathwalker positioned so that Worthy Challenge would prevent Marutuk from finishing off Dienekes. This let Dienekes absorb two Dismisive Swipes before the dragonspawn had a standoff with the Deathwalker. Deathwalker (and the Zettian Infantry) pelted down Marutuk and we called the game. In total, only Dienekes and a single Zettian Infantry was lost.



Tether or Logos is a handy way to get figures both into range of your artillery pieces, and deny some of your opponent's defensive powers. It really helps make Dienekes into handy dandy hero.

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