Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by wriggz

The Beakface rogues are best with the Archers and Quorick. The Brigands are best with other Brigands and Arthur. Just like Bol is best as a filler unit or with a URK/Brute build, rather than a Brigand build or Marcus and Parminio are better with Sacred band than Parmino and Valguard.

Certainly synergies exist, but some are red herrings rather than indication of army construction.

I don't believe Arthur exists, yet.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by wriggz

The Brigands are best with other Brigands and Arthur.

Arthur?

[superfrog]

Well, either wriggz meant Locksley or he's teasing a future release. I'll leave that to you, dear reader, to decide.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Well, either wriggz meant Locksley or he's teasing a future release. I'll leave that to you, dear reader, to decide.

Yeah Locksley, That is what I meant. I get my English Historical Figures mixed up. Robin, Arthur, Lancelot, etc.

[IshMEL]

Originally Posted by wriggz

Yeah Locksley, That is what I meant. I get my English Historical Figures mixed up. Robin, Arthur, Lancelot, etc.

I think that was Guinevere's excuse.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by IshMEL

I think that was Guinevere's excuse.

Delayed reaction, sir, but I doff my hat to you for that one.

[Dad_Scaper]

Yup. Sick burn.

[superfrog]

It's been a month, but we still exist, and it's time for some ACTION in this thread!

Rujin by Sir Heroscape

If you thought that the one thing Heroscape was missing was a big, nasty, ugly, mean, smelly swamp troll, then Rujin wants to be your answer. But how well does he fit in with ‘Scape’s existing trolls?

Balance

One of Rujin’s main roles is as a Savage hero for the Durgeth Ravagers. A natural comparison in that role is Pel the Hill Giant, who sits just 5 points cheaper. That’s about where the similarities stop, as their survivability is so different and their abilities don’t have much if any correlation.

A better comparison is the OG troll from Toril, the Feral Troll. They have the same stats save their attack, where Rujin holds a 4-3 advantage. Rujin has twice the regen potential (if only on swamp), and they both have attack bonuses.

This is a concerning comparison: Rujin looks like he outclasses the Feral Troll, and for only 10 additional points.

Theme

Swamp Regenerate is a good D&D troll ability, and Lurking Assault fills out his S W A M P theme rather nicely.

My only minor quibble is that he doesn’t look quite like the other D&D trolls, with an impressive underbite instead of a hook nose.

Creativity

Swamp Regenerate is a nice copy/retheme of Cold Regenerate. Lurking Assault splits the difference between First Assault and Lurking Ambush. I could complain about using shadow tiles in there, but Othkurik does it first.

Playability

A reminder of what you just read in the Balance section: we need evidence that Rujin doesn’t butt in on the Feral Troll’s niche.

So we’ll first consider him as a solo hero.

Rujin’s only really effective as a solo hero if he gets every OM. Throw multiple attacks per turn at him and you win easily, even on a swamp map. So his use as a solo hero is mostly relegated to cleanup, or in a uniques-heavy format like a dungeon crawl. But in these cases, if you’re playing on any non-swamp map, you’d rather have the Feral Troll. Sure, his base attack is lower than Rujin’s, but he can use his bonus wayyy more often. In my testing, I used Lurking Assault at most twice in a game. It’s just not worth it to set up once he’s already reached engagement. Since swamp water is so frequently on low ground, it just makes him all the more vulnerable if he’s anywhere near the action. And unlike the Feral Troll, using his bonus once makes it less useful for future turns. Since the Feral Troll can consistently throw more attack dice against heroes, you want him every time.

Now for those Troll/Ravager builds.

Rujin plays into the Durgeth Ravagers’ strengths. He’s got (decently) high attack and low defense like them. He also enjoys swampy maps, like they do. The way to beat a Durgeth army (alongside Pel or Zombie Hulks) is to rob them of their momentum. Kill a few front-line Ravagers, throw up a block the next turn, and then the bonding hero is robbed of turns. This momentum swing is particularly killer for Rujin. When he doesn’t take turns, he can’t regenerate, and without regeneration, he goes down fast. But when the army is working its best, Rujin can take a few turns per round and stay at decently high life. This presents a problem for the opposing player. In order to kill Rujin, they have to focus attacks on him. But it had better work, or the 4 attacks of 4 that Rujin and Ravagers can throw in a single turn are enough to eliminate the threat quickly and get Rujin back on the mend. The best strategy is to try to clear out a front line of Ravagers and then throw as many dice as you can at Rujin the next turn.

Rujin/Ravagers is a really fun and menacing swamp army. Outside of swamp, it’s just okay, although Rujin might be a slightly better option than Pel in a Ravagers army just by virtue of his maneuverability.

Summary

If you take the swamp monster out of the swamp, you also take the monster out of the swamp monster . That said, Rujin is fun to play, amplifies the Durgeth playstyle, and doesn’t terribly overshadow the Feral Troll.

I vote to induct Rujin into the Soldiers of Valhalla

[Scytale]

Kha by @kolakoski

Ullar is looking to expand his Rogue faction, this time looking at a less merry fellow.

Balance

It's surprisingly hard to find a good comparison for Kha. There are certainly Unique Heroes around his point value, but not so focused on the assassin role, at least not in the way he does it. I actually feel like the Deepwyrm Drow make the best comparison, despite the huge difference between a Unique Hero and a Common Squad. The two have very similar stats, if you consider Kha's extra life point offsets the Drow's Hide in Darkness. Kha has range, which is really important, of course, but it's easy to consider that benefit relatively even with the advantage of having multiple figures to attack with. The Drow can get three attacks of 3 with Poison Weapons, though it's more difficult to achieve against a single figure than Kha's two. I'd say the comparison suggests Kha's price is reasonable.

Theme

We haven't seen a Serpentfolk in Heroscape before, and with the figure in hand I can say it couldn't be a Lizardfolk. The figure and card work well together; both suggest a shadowy, sinister killer. That might seem like a stretch for Ullar, but he's never been solely good, so I don't have a problem with it.

Creativity

This design is a great reuse of existing abilities to make something play in a different way. The combination of multiple attacks (Double Assault) and Poison Weapons is a frightening one to opposing Heroes, and after he takes out his target he can Disengage to safety while still taking shots. Together the powers paint a picture of both the unit's lore and its actual playstyle as an opportunistic assassin.

Playability

The design practically screams "assassin." Yes, both a range attack of 3 and a double attack of 3 in melee are both ok in general, but Poison Weapons is what gives the serpent bite. Two poison-empowered hits on a hero can do some real damage. Even just one attack at range with 4 Attack (with height) is worrisome. While it seems like Disengage is meant to be defensive here, it's really more of an offensive threat as it allows Kha to get to his target almost regardless of interference.

There is some great tension in the design due to Double Assault. A single attack at range is good, but two hits in melee is better--until it's your opponent's turn. While Disengage could in theory get him to safety, that's less likely than you'd think. With only mediocre Life and Defense, though he'll likely survive a round, he'll be hurting, and he has to stay within 5 spaces if he wants to get another attack in. If the timing is right it works great, but more often than not it doesn't. So hang back and shoot or dive in for the kill? It's almost always a tough choice.

While Kha plays well on his own, he prefers to hang back until an opportune moment. The freedom that the Nottingham Brigands provide with their Rogue Hero Bonding gives the serpentman the freedom to strike when conditions are optimal, as well as a chance to retreat afterwards without losing a whole order marker. Elaria is also nice to have around to make the important poison rolls more potent.

Summary

I rather enjoyed testing Kha. He brings a certain tension to the board that is notable for a unit in this price range. Playing with him, you have to make some tough choices determining the best time to take a turn with him and whether or not to dive in for a Double Assault. Playing against him his sinister presence is a worrisome sight to any heroes, especially low-defense ones. Still, despite his significant threat, his attack power isn't all that strong, and neither are his defenses, so he doesn't dominate any more than he should. A fun addition.

I vote Yea to induct Kha into the SoV.

[Tornado]

Another great review Scytale. I always enjoy reading them
Looking good kolakoski.

[Sir Heroscape]

It's been 1.5yrs since Tetraites' submission. Just checkin' if there's been any movement with the other judges on him?

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Scytale

Kha by @kolakoski

Ullar is looking to expand his Rogue faction, this time looking at a less merry fellow.

Balance

It's surprisingly hard to find a good comparison for Kha. There are certainly Unique Heroes around his point value, but not so focused on the assassin role, at least not in the way he does it. I actually feel like the Deepwyrm Drow make the best comparison, despite the huge difference between a Unique Hero and a Common Squad. The two have very similar stats, if you consider Kha's extra life point offsets the Drow's Hide in Darkness. Kha has range, which is really important, of course, but it's easy to consider that benefit relatively even with the advantage of having multiple figures to attack with. The Drow can get three attacks of 3 with Poison Weapons, though it's more difficult to achieve against a single figure than Kha's two. I'd say the comparison suggests Kha's price is reasonable.

Theme

We haven't seen a Serpentfolk in Heroscape before, and with the figure in hand I can say it couldn't be a Lizardfolk. The figure and card work well together; both suggest a shadowy, sinister killer. That might seem like a stretch for Ullar, but he's never been solely good, so I don't have a problem with it.

Creativity

This design is a great reuse of existing abilities to make something play in a different way. The combination of multiple attacks (Double Assault) and Poison Weapons is a frightening one to opposing Heroes, and after he takes out his target he can Disengage to safety while still taking shots. Together the powers paint a picture of both the unit's lore and its actual playstyle as an opportunistic assassin.

Playability

The design practically screams "assassin." Yes, both a range attack of 3 and a double attack of 3 in melee are both ok in general, but Poison Weapons is what gives the serpent bite. Two poison-empowered hits on a hero can do some real damage. Even just one attack at range with 4 Attack (with height) is worrisome. While it seems like Disengage is meant to be defensive here, it's really more of an offensive threat as it allows Kha to get to his target almost regardless of interference.

There is some great tension in the design due to Double Assault. A single attack at range is good, but two hits in melee is better--until it's your opponent's turn. While Disengage could in theory get him to safety, that's less likely than you'd think. With only mediocre Life and Defense, though he'll likely survive a round, he'll be hurting, and he has to stay within 5 spaces if he wants to get another attack in. If the timing is right it works great, but more often than not it doesn't. So hang back and shoot or dive in for the kill? It's almost always a tough choice.

While Kha plays well on his own, he prefers to hang back until an opportune moment. The freedom that the Nottingham Brigands provide with their Rogue Hero Bonding gives the serpentman the freedom to strike when conditions are optimal, as well as a chance to retreat afterwards without losing a whole order marker. Elaria is also nice to have around to make the important poison rolls more potent.

Summary

I rather enjoyed testing Kha. He brings a certain tension to the board that is notable for a unit in this price range. Playing with him, you have to make some tough choices determining the best time to take a turn with him and whether or not to dive in for a Double Assault. Playing against him his sinister presence is a worrisome sight to any heroes, especially low-defense ones. Still, despite his significant threat, his attack power isn't all that strong, and neither are his defenses, so he doesn't dominate any more than he should. A fun addition.

I vote Yea to induct Kha into the SoV.

Thanks so much for the on point description of how Kha plays! You totally nailed the tension and timing aspects of playing him, much better than my feeble attempts to explain what I was thinking. And thanks to all who contributed to the process of his creation. You all helped keep it simple while preserving the essence of the character.

Thanks again, and here's hoping Kha appears in the lists of SoV soon!