The Book of Hoplitron

[DanieLoche]

Thanks Greygnarl.

Good job, just another little mistake (reaching perfection!):

Hoplitrons may benefit from their own Melee Soulborg Bomding.

I'm working on the French Version of the Book of Hoplitron.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Question:

What do you think is the sweet spot for these guys?
I own 12, but I think I do not need that many
(Right now 8 are still in their packages)

[dok]

I have a feeling it will be 3. I could see more in some formats. Maybe 5 in Heat of Battle?

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by dok

I have a feeling it will be 3. I could see more in some formats. Maybe 5 in Heat of Battle?

Thanks dok,

Guess I'll keep 5 and then I'll have 7 for trade or maybe prizes for a future C3V promotion

[Crixus33]

Just curious how does shield push work with units with the climb x2 power, scale 1, etc. For example, a deathreaver is knocked off a height four ledge to level 1, does it take falling damage or does climb x2 apply and it receives no damage.

Oh, thinking about fielding these guys in the next tourney.

[superfrog]

Say a rat falls 4 levels with shield push. NO falling damage, its height is modified during the fall. The concept comes straight from Shurrak's Knockback.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I don't think it's supposed to work with Shield Push.

You mean flying in general? I'm pretty sure it does work during Shield Push, unless this ruling was overturned. It doesn't make much sense theme wise, but it uses the same wording as Dispatch, so they have to work the same way.

[superfrog]

The thing is, you move your opponent's figures, and you don't/can't use their special movement powers (flying/grapple arm/disengage).

[greygnarl]

I don't think Flying was supposed to trigger.

[Hive Lord 1233]

It's not thematic, but whatever. I think its pretty cool how the relatively simple heroscape metagame forms these little quirky synergies and niche tactics.

Like the elf-wizard one-turn charge-hit-retreat strategy.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

You mean flying in general? I'm pretty sure it does work during Shield Push, unless this ruling was overturned. It doesn't make much sense theme wise, but it uses the same wording as Dispatch, so they have to work the same way.

No, that ruling has not been overturned.

What I meant was that allowing flying to work was probably not intended to work in the power.

Think back to Shurrak; does his Knockback allow figures to fly when they are knockbacked? Shield Push is essentially a shortened Knockback with different triggers.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

Think back to Shurrak; does his Knockback allow figures to fly when they are knockbacked?

Well, at least conceptually, it does:

... A non-flying figure moved lower by Knockback can receive any falling damage that may apply.

Certainly the only way that sentence makes sense is if the figured knocked back (regardless of whom it belongs to) is able to fly before hitting the floor of the canyon. Shield Push uses the same template.

Now, Knockback expressly states that it cannot gain elevation, but Shield Push has no such restriction; so it seems reasonable that if you Shield Push a figure, it can fly upwards.

However, I think we have to assume that it is the figure's owner who gets to activate the flying ... nothing in any of these texts says you get to voluntarily activate the other special powers on your opponents' figures. Clearly the owner of a flying figure would almost always choose to activate Flying to avoid falling damage, so the designers didn't bother writing a novella to explain all this; they just made it automatic.

If that is correct, then I would have to conclude that when you Shield Push a friendly figure, that figure can activate its Flying ability in order to move upwards. (Again, the text does not preclude gaining elevation.) I suppose even an unfriendly figure could voluntarily cooperate to do so, but I can't imagine that your opponent would want to cooperate in helping you put his figure on the space that's most advantageous to you; so this is probably moot.

Related question to consider: Can you Shield Push a Dzu-Teh onto Slippery Ice or Heavy Snow? This one might even work regardless of whether the figure's owner wants it to or not, because Snow and Ice Enhanced Movement is not an optional power. "Slippery Ice and Heavy Snow only count as 1 space when moving" is absolute; there is no "may." And note also the absoluteness of the answer to the ladder question: "If it only takes 1 movement point, you can do it with Shield Push."

I have no idea what the design intent was, but the "apparent clues" in the Shield Push text, both in the non-flying reference and in the ways it does and does not parallel Knockback, suggest that gaining elevation is possible depending on the circumstances. Regardless, all of this should be carefully considered in the context of the overall game engine and with an eye to consistency of interpretation, not just what "feels right" for one particular figure here or there. Whatever ruling comes out of this will be setting a precedent that future interactions will have to live with.

If a clarification needs to be written into the text, sooner is better than later.

And regardless, the mini-FAQs in the OP are going to need more precision in both the questions and the answers.