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  #1  
Old May 25th, 2018, 05:31 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Question Special Power Calculator

This thread is to determine the point of figures, stats & abilities.


For example: Nhrah Scirh Cultists are 80 points
  • 4 figures = ? points
  • 6 move = ? points
  • 3 attack = ? points
  • 3 defense = ? points
  • Fanatical Advance = ? points
  • Dragonkind Enmity = ? points
  • Iron Resolve = ? points
And the total point value of the Nhrah Scirh Cultists squad is 80 points. You can compare custom army cards to classic heroscape army cards.

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; November 29th, 2018 at 02:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old May 25th, 2018, 05:57 PM
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Re: Build Calculator

I've tried point cost calculators before, but I think that your best shot at pricing a card is by comparison.

For example, let's compare the Nhah Scirh Cultists to the Heavy Gruts.

They're both 4-man melee squads with 3 attack and 3 defense.

The Nhah Scirh have 6 move rather than 5, so there's a slight bump there.

The Orcs have good bonding options, so that's a significant advantage.

The Nhah Scirh have a form of disengage, but not full disengage, so another slight bump to the Orcs.

What makes the Nhah Scirh cost more than the Heavies is their other two powers. Against dragon builds and/or special attack builds, which are very common, the Nhah Scirh have a huge advantage. An auto-shield is really good against special attacks, many of which are several attacks of not very many dice.

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Old May 25th, 2018, 06:30 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
I've tried point cost calculators before, but I think that your best shot at pricing a card is by comparison.

For example, let's compare the Nhah Scirh Cultists to the Heavy Gruts.

They're both 4-man melee squads with 3 attack and 3 defense.

The Nhah Scirh have 6 move rather than 5, so there's a slight bump there.

The Orcs have good bonding options, so that's a significant advantage.

The Nhah Scirh have a form of disengage, but not full disengage, so another slight bump to the Orcs.

What makes the Nhah Scirh cost more than the Heavies is their other two powers. Against dragon builds and/or special attack builds, which are very common, the Nhah Scirh have a huge advantage. An auto-shield is really good against special attacks, many of which are several attacks of not very many dice.

What would those stats cost individually.
  • 1 figure = 5 points
  • 2 figures = 10 points
  • 3 figures = 15 points
  • 4 figures = 20 points
  • Disengage = 20 points
  • Bonding = 30 points

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; May 25th, 2018 at 08:36 PM.
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Old May 25th, 2018, 08:57 PM
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Re: Build Calculator

If I had to break it down, here's what I'd do:

4 attacks/turn @ 3 attack dice = 50 pts
3 defense = 0 points
5 move = 0 points
disengage = 5 points
bonding = 15 points

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ohs link generator/attack outcomes

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  #5  
Old May 25th, 2018, 09:21 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Stats: Attack x 2 figures
  • 1 = 5 points
  • 2 = 10 points
  • 3 = 15 points
  • 4 = 20 points
  • 5 = 25 points
  • 6 = 30 points
  • 7 = 35 points
  • 8 = 40 points
  • 9 = 45 points
Stats: Attack x 3 figures
  • 1 = 15 points
  • 2 = 30 points
  • 3 = 45 points
  • 4 = 50 points
  • 5 = 65 points
  • 6 = 70 points
  • 7 = 85 points
  • 8 = 90 points
  • 9 = 100 points
Stats: Attack x 4 figures
  • 1 = 20 points
  • 2 = 40 points
  • 3 = 60 points
  • 4 = 80 points
  • 5 = 100 points
  • 6 = 120 points
  • 7 = 140 points
  • 8 = 160 points
  • 9 = 180 points

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; May 26th, 2018 at 10:10 AM.
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  #6  
Old May 25th, 2018, 09:34 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
If I had to break it down, here's what I'd do:

4 attacks/turn @ 3 attack dice = 50 pts
3 defense = 0 points
5 move = 0 points
disengage = 5 points
bonding = 15 points

Are you certain that will total to 70 points and why does defense & move cost nothing.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 01:40 AM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Unique Hero: Life
  • 1 = 5 points
  • 2 = 10 points
  • 3 = 15 points
  • 4 = 20 points
  • 5 = 25 points
  • 6 = 30 points
  • 7 = 35 points
  • 8 = 40 points
  • 9 = 45 points
Uncommon Hero: Life
  • 3 = 15 points
  • 4 = 20 points
  • 5 = 25 points
  • 6 = 30 points
  • 7 = 35 points
  • 8 = 40 points

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; May 26th, 2018 at 10:13 AM.
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  #8  
Old May 26th, 2018, 01:53 AM
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Re: Build Calculator

I don't believe that pricing can be an exact calculation. Running some stats like these can be a good idea to get a general idea, but a unit's true value will only show through in playtests. For example, let's take a look at Arashara Goshiri: 5 Life, 5 Move, 1 Range, 4 Attack, and 3 Defense.

By any calculations, she shouldn't cost much at all, but she's a whopping 200 points. Even taking into account bonding with Romans and Sacred Band and her ability to shift around figures, that seems like a ton of points for such a small figure. Her value comes entirely from how players use her and the tricks that they can pull, and this won't show at all until she's played extensively.

We can take guesses at the range that units should be priced under (which is of course easier for some units than for others), but those mostly come from experience playing lots of different units and getting an overall feel for how powerful something is.

Of course, despite all of this, I'm pretty sure that Craig Van Ness mentioned that they used formulas when pricing units initially, so there's always that. Unfortunately, any such formulas are not available to the public, though, so we can only rely on balancing units against what already exists.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 03:06 AM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Special Abilities: Utility
Spoiler Alert!

Special Attacks:
Spoiler Alert!

Special Abilities: Defensive
Spoiler Alert!

Special Abilities: Movement
Spoiler Alert!

Special Abilities: Terrain
Spoiler Alert!

Special Abilities: Enhancements/Auras
Spoiler Alert!

Special Abilities: Bonding/Turns
Spoiler Alert!

Special Abilities: Miscellaneous
Spoiler Alert!

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; July 21st, 2018 at 02:13 PM.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 03:10 AM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I don't believe that pricing can be an exact calculation. Running some stats like these can be a good idea to get a general idea, but a unit's true value will only show through in playtests. For example, let's take a look at Arashara Goshiri: 5 Life, 5 Move, 1 Range, 4 Attack, and 3 Defense.

By any calculations, she shouldn't cost much at all, but she's a whopping 200 points. Even taking into account bonding with Romans and Sacred Band and her ability to shift around figures, that seems like a ton of points for such a small figure. Her value comes entirely from how players use her and the tricks that they can pull, and this won't show at all until she's played extensively.

We can take guesses at the range that units should be priced under (which is of course easier for some units than for others), but those mostly come from experience playing lots of different units and getting an overall feel for how powerful something is.

Of course, despite all of this, I'm pretty sure that Craig Van Ness mentioned that they used formulas when pricing units initially, so there's always that. Unfortunately, any such formulas are not available to the public, though, so we can only rely on balancing units against what already exists.

I am not sure what any army card costs nowadays.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 03:18 AM
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Re: Build Calculator

To use official units as examples as to why price formulas don't work, I'm gonna pull a couple cards.

First we're going to pull a fairly competitive unit, a squad that's almost always worth its points in salt, and one of my favorites.



And now we'll look at another fairly competitive squad, who are also almost always worth they points, and also get a bit of my love. But they aren't monsters.



As we can see both squads have a bunch of things in common.

Common Squad
5 movement
1 range
3 attack
3 defense
Bonding
A secondary power
70 points

However, a big difference between the two units is the number of figures in each squad. The Heavy Gruts have 4 members while the Capuan Gladiators are only 3 members. This means a number of things, including attacks per turn and bang for your buck in terms of overall army size. 3 Squads of Heavy Gruts gets you as many figures as 4 squads of Capuan Gladiators for a lot cheaper.

If we were to look at the power sets for directly pricing a unit, we could look at the secondary powers of these two very similar units.

The Orcs have Disengage, a fairly common power among the Orcs, which is an excellent power for a squad figure to have. Since squad figures have only one life, they normally have a 50% or less chance to successfully run away from enemy figures. The Orcs don't have have to worry about those odds anymore.

The Gladiators have Initiative Advantage, which is not all that great of a power. A maximum of +3 to your initiative roll is not likely to swing initiative your way very often, and even then the power dictates that all of your Order Markers need to be on Gladiator cards to even get the benefit.

So, I'd say the Gladiators got the short end of the stick in terms of balance. Or maybe not, since it is largely agreed that the Gladiator army is actually fairly solid in both casual settings and competitive ones. The reason is not because the Capuans are actually evenly balanced with the Gruts, but because of the very specific Army the Capuans fit into. The Heavy Gruts are worth their 70 points, and don't really need to be supported with a very specific unit to get their value in a match. They have a wide variety of Orc Champions who will all give them something they like a lot, and support them just enough. But, the Capuans need Spartacus to be worth their 70 points, just like Spartacus needs them to be worth 200.

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Old May 26th, 2018, 09:03 AM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
To use official units as examples as to why price formulas don't work, I'm gonna pull a couple cards.

First we're going to pull a fairly competitive unit, a squad that's almost always worth its points in salt, and one of my favorites.



And now we'll look at another fairly competitive squad, who are also almost always worth they points, and also get a bit of my love. But they aren't monsters.



As we can see both squads have a bunch of things in common.

Common Squad
5 movement
1 range
3 attack
3 defense
Bonding
A secondary power
70 points

However, a big difference between the two units is the number of figures in each squad. The Heavy Gruts have 4 members while the Capuan Gladiators are only 3 members. This means a number of things, including attacks per turn and bang for your buck in terms of overall army size. 3 Squads of Heavy Gruts gets you as many figures as 4 squads of Capuan Gladiators for a lot cheaper.

If we were to look at the power sets for directly pricing a unit, we could look at the secondary powers of these two very similar units.

The Orcs have Disengage, a fairly common power among the Orcs, which is an excellent power for a squad figure to have. Since squad figures have only one life, they normally have a 50% or less chance to successfully run away from enemy figures. The Orcs don't have have to worry about those odds anymore.

The Gladiators have Initiative Advantage, which is not all that great of a power. A maximum of +3 to your initiative roll is not likely to swing initiative your way very often, and even then the power dictates that all of your Order Markers need to be on Gladiator cards to even get the benefit.

So, I'd say the Gladiators got the short end of the stick in terms of balance. Or maybe not, since it is largely agreed that the Gladiator army is actually fairly solid in both casual settings and competitive ones. The reason is not because the Capuans are actually evenly balanced with the Gruts, but because of the very specific Army the Capuans fit into. The Heavy Gruts are worth their 70 points, and don't really need to be supported with a very specific unit to get their value in a match. They have a wide variety of Orc Champions who will all give them something they like a lot, and support them just enough. But, the Capuans need Spartacus to be worth their 70 points, just like Spartacus needs them to be worth 200.

I am not sure about the point value of abilities, just started this thread to see the true point value of army cards.
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