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  #3925  
Old December 5th, 2019, 02:26 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
Yeah, it's interesting though I am curious about once the doppleganger is killed it can't come back, which doesn't feel like a thematic illusionist to me either. Maybe if he somehow has a living shadow or something. For an illusionist I'd think he'd be able to create more than just one.
I thought about having a power that brings the Doppelganger back, but it would mean Cade becomes the target. With the current design there is a reason to attack both. I don't think there should be multiple doppelgangers because the theme of a doppelganger is that there is 2 of them. Cade puts all his power into the formation of his doppelganger and the illusions he performs with it. Illusionists generaly perform lots of different tricks, but with this design Cade illusion powers revovle around the doppelganger.
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  #3926  
Old December 8th, 2019, 04:44 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'm looking for some feedback on these revisions for Masha Shingai.



There are only two changes from his submission:
  • Awakened Terror affects all Squads, but specifically excludes Samurai. This makes him playable with the Tagawa Samurai Archers.

  • His Fiery Retribution has a slight buff to avenge Samurai within two spaces instead of just adjacent ones.

When considering ways to buff Masha after he failed the process, I was very hesitant because of the fact that he can be punishing for melee in the right circumstances. These changes do not impact his power against melee very much, but they still make him a more effective cheerleader for the Samurai that ties them together more.

The biggest change for melee opponents is that the Tagawa Samurai Archers are more viable, given that they're designed as a melee counter. I'm still testing this combo to make sure that it isn't overwhelming, but the TSA generally already struggle enough that it's been promising thus far. Masha still comes with his built-in trade-offs as well, so while he makes them more fun to play and is a more balanced cheerleader now, it isn't as strong as it might immediately seem.

The other big change is that Fiery Retribution is now a small aura of 2 spaces. It still only has a 40% chance of avenging the wound, though, ensuring that each loss still hurts. This really just results in Masha being less frustrating to play, as he has more options for placement and can distract the opponent from more Samurai to buy them extra turns. Notably, I've also found that it eases the tension on him needing OM1 slightly, since he can provide some value other than just via Awakened Terror.

In terms of problems that I'm having with the current design, I'm concerned about him potentially seeming too meta-gamey as it stands. I really liked the thematic simplicity of Awakened Terror before, and though "This power does not work against Samurai" has precedent with Counterstrike (and he actually is pretty fun to play with the TSA), I feel like it's kind of ugly in comparison. I'm curious if anyone else agrees, or if the buffed Retribution creates any concerns.
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  #3927  
Old December 9th, 2019, 01:39 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

The changes are pretty good. Personally, if you're going to call out Samurai as an exception I'd like you to add in Undead too, but it's not a big concern. I am a bit concerned about how well he'll work with the TSAs, but I don't think that will be a problem.
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  #3928  
Old December 9th, 2019, 04:15 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The changes are pretty good. Personally, if you're going to call out Samurai as an exception I'd like you to add in Undead too, but it's not a big concern.
Any specific reason for this? I'm not opposed to it in principle, but undead often have revival mechanics that could get a bit frustrating if they combo well with an attack reduction.

Quote:
I am a bit concerned about how well he'll work with the TSAs, but I don't think that will be a problem.
My initial tests with them have proven promising. I still need to do more stress testing with Raelin and him to ensure that they aren't too frustrating for melee (and that the new podding potential with Fiery Retribution's aura and TSAs is okay), but it hasn't been overwhelming so far. Including them in his synergy web definitely makes him feel like a more cohesive cheerleader for the Samurai, and the army is fun to boot, so hopefully they can work.
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  #3929  
Old December 9th, 2019, 05:54 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The changes are pretty good. Personally, if you're going to call out Samurai as an exception I'd like you to add in Undead too, but it's not a big concern.
Any specific reason for this? I'm not opposed to it in principle, but undead often have revival mechanics that could get a bit frustrating if they combo well with an attack reduction.
Thematic reasons, not gameplay. The effect is some sort of terror effect, which doesn't seem like it would affect Undead.
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  #3930  
Old December 9th, 2019, 06:57 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The changes are pretty good. Personally, if you're going to call out Samurai as an exception I'd like you to add in Undead too, but it's not a big concern.
Any specific reason for this? I'm not opposed to it in principle, but undead often have revival mechanics that could get a bit frustrating if they combo well with an attack reduction.
Thematic reasons, not gameplay. The effect is some sort of terror effect, which doesn't seem like it would affect Undead.
Might not affect Soulborgs too.

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  #3931  
Old December 9th, 2019, 07:02 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy View Post
Might not affect Soulborgs too.
Naw, Soulborgs have feelings. Q10 is Merciful, for example. I could see Constructs, but no need to pile stuff on.
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  #3932  
Old December 9th, 2019, 08:39 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

In terms of theme, I think that it's hard to tell where to draw the line (Fearless personalities, Constructs and Undead, and probably more make sense to be excluded). I'd like to keep it simple and limit it to only Samurai to avoid that altogether, but if it's a significant issue then I have no qualms with changing it.
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  #3933  
Old December 9th, 2019, 09:39 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I feel like if the power is going to exclude Samurai it needs a new name to make that feel more thematic and less gamey. Like IDK ‘Terror of the Honorless’ or something. Just something to convey a thematic reason why he doesn’t give Sams the Heebie-jeebies instead of it just being a purely mechincal fix kinda deal.


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  #3934  
Old December 10th, 2019, 11:54 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
In terms of theme, I think that it's hard to tell where to draw the line (Fearless personalities, Constructs and Undead, and probably more make sense to be excluded). I'd like to keep it simple and limit it to only Samurai to avoid that altogether, but if it's a significant issue then I have no qualms with changing it.
See I would keep it to Samurai only.


The Terror is a magical effect, which does not extend to Samurai as they are his patrons.


My concerns were 1. Dude is a Samurai, and fighting with Samurai, they shouldn't be too afraid and 2. he is a Samurai cheerleader, and the Archers could use some cheerleading.


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  #3935  
Old December 10th, 2019, 12:23 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
I feel like if the power is going to exclude Samurai it needs a new name to make that feel more thematic and less gamey. Like IDK ‘Terror of the Honorless’ or something. Just something to convey a thematic reason why he doesn’t give Sams the Heebie-jeebies instead of it just being a purely mechincal fix kinda deal.
This is a very thoughtful point.

Faction-wise, he's an ally of the Samurai. For that reason he doesn't terrorize them. That's how I see a justification for the theme. I would definitely not want to turn it into a hodge podge of exceptions to go *with* Samurai, though.

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  #3936  
Old December 10th, 2019, 08:48 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Yeah, I'm leaning towards keeping the Awakened Terror exclusion to just Samurai. There are other traits that could thematically be excluded, but Samurai is the only one necessary to add the TSA to his web, and it doesn't introduce any unintended synergies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
I feel like if the power is going to exclude Samurai it needs a new name to make that feel more thematic and less gamey. Like IDK ‘Terror of the Honorless’ or something. Just something to convey a thematic reason why he doesn’t give Sams the Heebie-jeebies instead of it just being a purely mechincal fix kinda deal.
You make a good point. I'm fine with changing the name of the power to fit the Samurai more. "Terror of the Honorless" sounds decent enough to me, though I'm open to alternatives.
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