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  #2353  
Old October 29th, 2008, 09:51 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Phaethon View Post
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Originally Posted by Raudulfr Shieldcrusher View Post
Did anyone catch the fact that Palin stated a few months ago that her state "shares the wealth" with regard to the money they get from big oil? I found that very telling.

Here is a link to Keith Olbermann talking/ranting about it:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27424491/

Quote:
And Alaska - we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.


(on a side note, if Palin was a member of this site and posted that 'sentence', she would have been strung up!)
Did anyone catch that Biden said that those making over $150,000 would be taxed at a higher rate? Did you hear that Obama changed his wording on the $250,000 over the past weekend? He used to say everyone under $250k pays less taxes and now it's those under $200k.

Did you hear that Obama continually presses for transparency in government and yet his campaign finances are coming under scrutiny? It seems he has been accepting fraudulent credit card donations and gift card donations, all while having no semblance of the most basic of security measures (like automatically checking the name submitted matches the name the credit card company has on record or asking for the 3 digit security code on the back). In reality, there is absolutely no way to tell where he's getting the money from.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...803413_pf.html

Obama's campaign has raised over $200M from donations of less than $200 a piece.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10272008...428.htm?page=0

This is a telling couple paragraphs from the above NY Post article:

But the Obama campaign is running a system that complicates the discovery of "something wrong." It has chosen to operate an online contribution system that facilitates illegal falsely sourced contributions, illegal foreign contributions and the evasion of contribution limits.

Obama backers making such contributions may not be worried that "something wrong" will be detected if they have no intention of complaining about it.

This from the person who pledged to accept federal funds if his opponent did likewise. McCain did, Obama reniged. I guess he figured out a way to gather a lot more. I feel sorry for those who think this guy is any different than any of the rest of them. He's not.

There is only one political truth in DC... Follow the money. Something here absolutely stinks...


I'm glad somebody else smells a rat here.

What scares me is all the undisclosed foreign contributions. Who would be interested in putting an inexperienced politician into the White House? Iranians, Palestinians anybody?




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  #2354  
Old October 29th, 2008, 10:09 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Sorry fellas, but my experience thusfar has been that Dems don't really care if that money is dirty or not because it is going to their guy. It is a nasty facit of human nature that we are so willing to put blinders on regarding the faults, to the point of illegallity, so long as it is "our" team that comes out on top from it. Before you get too proud with how moral you are, though, be reminded that you're probably every bit as guilty as they are...look no further than the "Enemy Combatants" designation and detention for proof positive that everyone is willing to have the law circumvented so long as the outcome is something they desire.

&%@* it. The race is almost over; let the chips fall where they may.

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  #2355  
Old October 29th, 2008, 11:08 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Fezzikthedoor View Post
Sorry fellas, but my experience thusfar has been that Dems don't really care if that money is dirty or not because it is going to their guy. It is a nasty facit of human nature that we are so willing to put blinders on regarding the faults, to the point of illegallity, so long as it is "our" team that comes out on top from it. Before you get too proud with how moral you are, though, be reminded that you're probably every bit as guilty as they are...look no further than the "Enemy Combatants" designation and detention for proof positive that everyone is willing to have the law circumvented so long as the outcome is something they desire.

&%@* it. The race is almost over; let the chips fall where they may.
Maybe so, fezzik...

But when someone promises to do one thing, renigs, then is discovered doing something that is almost assuredly breaking campaign finance rules, something needs to be done. I sure hope someone in this country's 4th estate buys some intestinal fortitude and decides to actually follow the money.

By the way, Sandra at HMG has much more security in her business than Obama does in his campaign. Shouldn't that mean something?

You can say what you want about "enemy combatants", but the current administration has never backed off that contention. The hypocracy here is amazing.

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  #2356  
Old October 30th, 2008, 12:18 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Hypocrisy is the name of the game for politicians. McCain runs for the family values party - and he cheated on his first wife and then left her to marry a rich hottie robot. Bush called Kerry a pansy, even though Kerry got wounded in 'Nam and Bush's daddy got him out of the military - and then he still didn't show up for work. McCain gets ***** at Obama for running negative ads, even though the most negative ads at the beginning were his.

I can come up with lots more, but I think the point is clear. Saying one thing and doing another is what politicians do. Pretending that one guy is worse than the other because he's a hypocrite is silly. They're all hypocrites. They're all liars. They're all spin-doctoring a-holes who buy their way into the presidency.

The ironic thing is that we can thank ourselves for the lies and cheating and pandering. I see a lot of complaints about how rotten the candidates are - so why are you going to vote for one of them? I'll tell you why. Because they spent millions of dollars to make sure you think they're the only alternative. And you believe them, so they're right. They swindle you and cheat you and lie to you, because it's the only way to get your vote.

So don't vote for Obama - he's a hypocrite. And don't vote for McCain - he is, too. Vote for a guy you think is honest. There are options - Bob Barr, Ron Paul, and my personal all-time favorite candidate ever, Ralph Nader. No, none of those guys will win. But as long as you continue to reward the lying and cheating and pandering with your vote, it will keep happening.

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  #2357  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:29 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

That be true.

Never in any of our lifetimes have we truly been able to vote for the 'greater good'. Rather, it seems that every election you must settle for the 'lesser evil' regardless of your point of view.

Despite the fact that I consider myself to be extremely conservative, or perhaps because of it, I cannot figure out how the heck McCain, or Obama made it this far. As far as I'm concerned regardless of the winning candidate it is either a loss or a major loss.

It would be great in my book to see some big names, proven to stick to their ideas and who talk honestly every time. But that's never going to happen.

I do wonder just how Limbaugh would do in a presidential race though... (sorry, I don't know any big liberal news/talk show names, and most liberals I know don't classify Colmes as liberal enough, so I'm can only propose someone for the republicans.) You know he is conservative, now no one can question that. But the game of politics has been shown to change people before.

Why isn't it possible to have a non-corrupt government?

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  #2358  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:34 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukatha View Post
Why isn't it possible to have a non-corrupt government?
Because government is the wielding of power and power tends to corrupt.

~Aldin, pointing out that we are all corrupt to some extent or another - no one is perfect

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  #2359  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:59 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaethon View Post
You can say what you want about "enemy combatants", but the current administration has never backed off that contention. The hypocracy here is amazing.
I agree--they have never backed off of the unlawful detention of both foreign nationals and even more shamefully, U.S. citizens, thereby acting beyond the mandate of the U.S. Constitution, the Geneva conventions (the articles of which are, admitidly, debatable as applied here), and various other international treaties as well as a few hundred years of common law.

...so yeah, to use your words, the hypocracy here is amazing. Just proves my point s'all.

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  #2360  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:12 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukatha View Post
Why isn't it possible to have a non-corrupt government?
Because government is the wielding of power and power tends to corrupt.

~Aldin, pointing out that we are all corrupt to some extent or another - no one is perfect
I can't agree with you more. Power, greed, personal feelings, lack of respect, these are just some of the things that can lead to the downfall of even the greatest government in the world. I personally think the government's lack of respect is proving to be the major problem. The Constitution is one of our most sacred and important documents and it is being warped and ignored. This is why some of our founding fathers like Patrick Henry and George Mason, opposed the Constitution. The pivotal question they asked was: would the Constitution give us a national government that was so powerful that it would undermine our liberties? Henry and Mason believed it would, and I think it has today. A Revolutionary War hero, George Nicholas, made an excellent quote that helped the Constitution to be ratified.
"An enlightened people will never suffer what was established for their security to be perverted to an act of tyranny."
For those who don't know what "enlightened" means here, an enlightened people are citizens who know what they believe and know what is going on in our nation. Nicholas made an important assumption though, that Americans would always be enlightened. So now the Constitution means almost zilch and our government is CHOCK FULL of slimebag politicians. Who's to blame? We the citizens of America are. We aren't enlightened (for the most part, however some people here really seem to know which end is up). We have let tyranny prevail, and have done little to stop it. I would say my views on what needs to be done, but A. some people would argue it doesn't belong on a political discussion thread and B. Even if it did, a lot of people wouldn't want to hear it. There's always a PM though.
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  #2361  
Old October 30th, 2008, 09:21 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fezzikthedoor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaethon View Post
You can say what you want about "enemy combatants", but the current administration has never backed off that contention. The hypocracy here is amazing.
I agree--they have never backed off of the unlawful detention of both foreign nationals and even more shamefully, U.S. citizens, thereby acting beyond the mandate of the U.S. Constitution, the Geneva conventions (the articles of which are, admitidly, debatable as applied here), and various other international treaties as well as a few hundred years of common law.

...so yeah, to use your words, the hypocracy here is amazing. Just proves my point s'all.
But it's not the first time such a thing was done. Abraham Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus during the civil war. The case went to the Supreme Court where the court ruled the suspension unconstitutional. Lincoln promptly ignored the ruling.

Oh but wait, that was a time of war....

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  #2362  
Old October 30th, 2008, 09:30 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandarforever View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukatha View Post
Why isn't it possible to have a non-corrupt government?
Because government is the wielding of power and power tends to corrupt.

~Aldin, pointing out that we are all corrupt to some extent or another - no one is perfect
I can't agree with you more. Power, greed, personal feelings, lack of respect, these are just some of the things that can lead to the downfall of even the greatest government in the world. I personally think the government's lack of respect is proving to be the major problem. The Constitution is one of our most sacred and important documents and it is being warped and ignored. This is why some of our founding fathers like Patrick Henry and George Mason, opposed the Constitution. The pivotal question they asked was: would the Constitution give us a national government that was so powerful that it would undermine our liberties? Henry and Mason believed it would, and I think it has today. A Revolutionary War hero, George Nicholas, made an excellent quote that helped the Constitution to be ratified.
"An enlightened people will never suffer what was established for their security to be perverted to an act of tyranny."
For those who don't know what "enlightened" means here, an enlightened people are citizens who know what they believe and know what is going on in our nation. Nicholas made an important assumption though, that Americans would always be enlightened. So now the Constitution means almost zilch and our government is CHOCK FULL of slimebag politicians. Who's to blame? We the citizens of America are. We aren't enlightened (for the most part, however some people here really seem to know which end is up). We have let tyranny prevail, and have done little to stop it. I would say my views on what needs to be done, but A. some people would argue it doesn't belong on a political discussion thread and B. Even if it did, a lot of people wouldn't want to hear it. There's always a PM though.
</IMG>
We're probably of similar minds. I think the biggest threat this country has from inside is the ill-informed voter. I personally don't like all the "easy voting" programs that we now have. I don't think voting should be tough (ie, no poll-tax or test), but it shouldn't be so danged easy, either.

Voting needs to be something that people have to want to do. If someone is apathetic, then I really don't want them voting! It is a duty of every citizen to learn about the candidates and the issues and only then decide how to vote.

Every time a campaign worker stops by (and they do quite a bit), I always grill them on the issues. The really sad fact is that these workers have NO IDEA why they're voting for their candidate. Simple challenges on the issues shows a complete lack of understanding. Instead, it's become a beauty pageant and a popularity contest.

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  #2363  
Old October 30th, 2008, 09:45 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

I know! I had a guy come by and start trying to Obamatize me. I asked him if he liked Obama more because he wants to stay and finish the war or if it's because he is so strongly against gay marriage and abortion....the 'campaign worker' said, "I like Obama for all of those reasons, so can I count on your vote for Obama?" to which I told him that I was closing the door and that I expected him off my porch in the next 30 seconds.

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  #2364  
Old October 30th, 2008, 10:19 AM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Superflytnt View Post
I know! I had a guy come by and start trying to Obamatize me. I asked him if he liked Obama more because he wants to stay and finish the war or if it's because he is so strongly against gay marriage and abortion....the 'campaign worker' said, "I like Obama for all of those reasons, so can I count on your vote for Obama?" to which I told him that I was closing the door and that I expected him off my porch in the next 30 seconds.
Can you believe it?! Part of being an "enlightened citizen" is at least knowing what the candidates stand for! I'm willing to bet a HUGE percentage of voters are just following the crowd and don't know what they're getting into when they vote for Obama. I don't claim to be an enlightened citizen yet (working hard on it though), but I know enough to see that Obama's plans for so many things go 100% against the Constitution and the founding father's original intent. I'm not saying McCain is flawless either. I know he's far from perfect, but there really is no such thing as a "perfect" candidate. McCain's views, or at least some of them, is much more in line with the Constitution and so therefore, he's getting my vote this year. Some may smash me for wanting to be an enlightened citizen, and then voting for McCain, but let me just say that desperate times call for desperate measures.
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