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  #49  
Old September 1st, 2008, 06:51 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Makes me wonder whose side she's on??????
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  #50  
Old September 1st, 2008, 06:54 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Or if she celebrates diversity?

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  #51  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:09 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

I don't argue with usefulness of assassination.
SunZi nailed it in saying that the best way to not lose a fight is by avoiding it.

I don't see SunZi caring one way or another about how honorable assassination is, he just cares about it's effectiveness.

I can understand why Chinese generals of antiquity would drop that chapter, because in eliminating the command structure of an army (i.e. themselves) one reduces its effectiveness, possibly completely subduing it. Most grunts aren't strategists or tacticians enough to effectively replace command. Done early enough, assassination(s) could prevent a war altogether.

But I don't think it's honorable. Openly facing an opponent is honorable, whether it's in words or fists or sticks or guns. Two parties have made an agreement that they will spar with each other. But side-lining the event before it happens by removing one of the actors, is generally considered dirty pool.
Now if that side-lining is mutually agreed upon as a viable tactic, then there is nothing dishonorable in it. However, even if SunZi thinks it useful, it's still not on par with pitting ability against ability, whether it's mental, physical, or what have you. Assassination doesn't have a place in Chivalry or Bushido, because it takes away from the challenge of the direct competition.


In talking about motivations of the Heroscape generals to use such tactics, I don't think Jandar would do it based on the story and the kinds of units we see in his army thus far. It's not in his personality to eliminate the competition through surreptitious means.


edit: I mean if there were counter-examples to my interpretation in what Jandar's armies are about, then I could concede. However, I still think Jandar is 'fighting the good fight', only because losing would bring about his own annihilation. While he might let his allies use their own tactics, I believe Jandar will stay true to a code that does not include assassination.

Last edited by MalignantT; September 1st, 2008 at 07:16 PM.
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  #52  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:24 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

You have a made a good point. Jandar is a "Goody-Little-Two-Shoes" kind of army. Jandar would see honor as the highest virtue even in the face of death. Which surprises me as to why we see no samurai in their forces, although Einar has the monopoly on that. I just hate to hear people assumeing that ninjas are dishonorable bad boys. When you look at the world today and the ever-present threat of nuclear war and terrorist attacks, to not use espionage and agents of assassination you are only writing your own death certificate. You can't expect the enemy to play by the rules. But I can see goofy knights of Jandar believing in this naive ideal. So I reluctantly agree with you. Jandar do not deserve a ninja.

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  #53  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:33 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Although now that you agree with me, I want to make a new disagreement. And it's on a point you made about intelligence.

I can see Jandar getting a 'spy' ninja, not an 'assassination' ninja.

A ninja that was not a stealth killer, but instead a disrupter, I could see in Janar's army. Removing/showing order-markers, preventing attacks, or something like that.

Put him or her in urban camo, and voila, a Jandar Ninja!
edit: Urban camo because it's blue and white (and black and gray).


p.s. I think I just enjoy being difficult.
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  #54  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:35 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

I think that Jandar CAN get a ninja. Why?
Just look at the Omnicrons. First off, the Omnicron Snipers, according to their bio, are GUERIlLA FIGHTERS. That means that the enemy won't see them if the Omnicrons are having a good day, let alone have any means of striking back. That would go against the moral of honor, and yet Jandar summoned them (of course, I could be missing the point of guerilla warfare, in which case you can correct me). Not only that, but the good guys are losing - provided that the ninja Jandar summons has good ideals, I think that Jandar could summon one so he could get the edge while not deviating a drastic amount from his honor details. Admittedly, I think Jandar's the least likely to get a ninja, but I do think it's possible. In any case, if he gets a ninja, he's the last general who's going to get one.
Edit: Nice point about the disruption ninja. I think that a Ninja that had some misdirection ability would be awesome. Just think about it - if someone is trying to shoot you with a pistol, the best way to dodge it if a Ninja's nearby without killing them is to make it so their shot misses, and what better way for the opponent to miss a shot then tricking him into hitting a tree instead of the actual person he's aiming for?

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  #55  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:40 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalignantT View Post
Although now that you agree with me, I want to make a new disagreement. And it's on a point you made about intelligence.

I can see Jandar getting a 'spy' ninja, not an 'assassination' ninja.

A ninja that was not a stealth killer, but instead a disrupter, I could see in Janar's army. Removing/showing order-markers, preventing attacks, or something like that.

Put him or her in urban camo, and voila, a Jandar Ninja!

p.s. I think I just enjoy being difficult.
Yes I have assessed that you enjoy being difficult and this has been an enjoyable debate. And now that you agree to disagree with your ealier statements, I will say that that WAS exactly the kind of ninja I had in mind for Jandar. A ninja that wasn't so much out to kill, but more out to disrupt. On an earler post I mentioned useing Dunds ability to remove Order markers. Also stealth has to be her strong point, maybe thats all we should expect. A high amount of movement combined with a diruption factor. And of course ghostwalk.. The order marker removal ability should be a ranged special attack. Range 5 poison dart. Not a killing move, just a disruption tool. And she can even tie a letter of apology to the dart.

What a sweet little Jandar ninja.

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  #56  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:47 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

If Ullar can get a ninja Jandar can.
Ullar's is forest themed and Jandar's can be ice themed.
Freeze Darts Special Attack
Range 5 Attack 3
If at least one wound his put on the defending figure roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher you may reveal one unrevealed order marker on the chosen figure's army card.

Snow and Ice Enhanced Movement

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Last edited by Agent of Vydar; September 1st, 2008 at 07:48 PM. Reason: forgot snow and ice movement
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  #57  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:48 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalignantT View Post
I can see Jandar getting a 'spy' ninja, not an 'assassination' ninja.

A ninja that was not a stealth killer, but instead a disrupter, I could see in Janar's army. Removing/showing order-markers, preventing attacks, or something like that.
I love the idea of "showing" order markers even better than removeing them! This could make a Jandar ninja a staple in many armies for methodical players! I know I would hire her!

But how would you utilize the Spying feature?

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  #58  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:48 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Response to bloody the marro stinger:

The Omicrons are Guerrilla fighters, but they are fighting for the rights of others against the suppression of the gladiatron/blastrons and extermination from the Death______ers. As a resistance group in the minority, they cannot openly fight because it would lead to immediate annihilation. But even guerrilla fighters can fight with honor.

The Omicrons aren't like Dead-Eye Dan, insta-kill. I'm not saying DED doesn't have honor, but it's not the 'goodie-little-twosies' kind of honor. DED is a bit too Fist Full of Dollars for that.




Response to faxanadu13

Yeah, I got too wrapped up in Ninja's as assassins to remember Ninja's as spies.

how would I get it to work? d20 roll.
Maybe a d20 roll after initiative, but before turn 1
have it apply to figures all figures adjacent to Jandar Ninja

or "if order marker 1 (or X) is on _____ (Jandar Ninja), d20 roll"
and it could target a figure x spaces away from ninja.


Actually, combined, that sounds a lot like Red Skulls "Dust of Death" ability.
That's how I would do it. With slightly lower numbers.

Last edited by MalignantT; September 1st, 2008 at 07:58 PM.
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  #59  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:54 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
Makes me wonder whose side she's on??????
She's on the right side of my bed.

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  #60  
Old September 1st, 2008, 07:57 PM
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Re: Colors of the Ninja Garb

Then they can do something like that for Jandar's ninja. The storyline reason for the Ninja could be that the Ninja's enemies are attacking his city and have already destroyed part of it. The ninja is part of a resistance that couldn't fight them head-to-head or they'd lose horribly. As such, he took up the way of the Ninja to combat them. He's still fighting with honorable intent, he's just forced to do it in a way that is normally associated with dishonor. If the Omnicrons can do it, why can't a ninja?

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