Public Design Workshop

[tcglkn]

I think we could certainly put powers in different orders if it made sense. There’s no hard rule there.

[Sporx]

In that case....

NAME = MUHAMMAD ALI

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = FIGHTER
PERSONALITY = CONFIDENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = ~160?

FLOAT LIKE A BUTTERFLY
When moving normally, Muhammad Ali never takes leaving engagement attacks and may move one additional space as long as he ends his movement engaged.

STING LIKE A BEE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 1, 2, or 3.
Muhammad Ali starts each turn with 6 attack dice, and he may keep making special attacks with 1, 2, or 3 attack dice until he has rolled all 6 attack dice. When rolling attack dice for this Special Attack, if a skull is rolled on every die, the defending figure rolls one fewer defense die for the remainder of this turn.

ROPE-A-DOPE
If Muhammad Ali defends against an adjacent normal attack and does not receive a wound, you may roll an unblockable attack die against the attacking figure.

GO THE DISTANCE
Once per round, if Muhammad Ali would be destroyed by receiving wounds, he instead takes no damage.


Float Like a Butterfly is a (slightly) lower powered version of Aaron Cash's Action Reflexes.

Is four powers too many? Thematically, I like all of them. If one has to go, I think "Go the Distance," and then adjust his Life to give him more staying power.

[IAmBatman]

I'd probably cut Go The Distance.

Thematically, what power level should we be shooting for here? I wouldn't go over 5 life, but I'm not sure 4 is wrong even with Go The Distance cut.

[Sporx]

I think it helps to look at other "standard" human heros for comparison. Ali is a top tier human fighter - the Greatest of All Time, after all.

The problem for Ali is "Rope-a-Dope." If we add to his Defense, that power becomes much more of a problem. Life of 4 seems low; 4 Life/4 Defense puts him in league with good fighters, but not the great fighters.

DC: Characters with 4 Life and 4 Defense: Batman ('66), all three Batgirls, Green Arrow (I), Black Canary (JS), Robin (Tim), Starman (Jack). They are not at the same level as Ali in a hand-to-hand fight.

Mister Terrific (Terry) has 4L/4D with "Olympic Level Athlete," which lets him reroll attack and defense dice for normal attacks.

4 Life and 5 Defense: Green Arrow (JL), Batmen (I, JLA, Outsiders, Dick), Nightwing (II), Red Hood, Red Hood.

Jokers (All- if considered a normal human) 6L/3D.

Marvel: Comparing him to the Daredevils, as a "boxer" type - Daredevil (I) 4 Life/ 5 Defense; Daredevil (II) 4 Life/ 4 Defense with Go the Distance.

Kingpin (I) 5L/6D; (II) 5L/5D. (I don't think he is "super," just a normal person. I could be wrong)

4L/4D - Dum-Dum Duggan, Falcon (I and MCU), Hawkeye (I and Avengers), Phil Coulson.

4L/5D - Ronin.

5L/4D - Black Widow (I).

5L/5D - Black Widow (Avengers), Punisher

6L/5D - Kraven (I don't think he is "super," just a normal person. I could be wrong).

I think the question is 5 Life, or 4 Life with Go the Distance. I could be wrong... again, I am no designer. Thank you for the input!

Ali was my dad's favorite boxer. Yesterday was the second anniversary of his (dad's) death and there is a lot of Ali talk in the news with the new Burns documentary. Got me thinking about this figure...

[IAmBatman]

I mean, all due respect to Ali, he was great at *boxing*. We don't really know how he'd do if he showed up in a pair of boxer trunks and engaged a street fight against an armed and armored martial arts master like Batgirl, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Mister Terrific, and the like.

Black Widow is definitely an "enhanced" human (basically has the Soviet version of the Super Soldier serum).

Kraven drank a jungle potion and developed superhuman powers.

[MrNobody]

Lots of movement here!

ALI
Muhammad Ali from the comics is regular human Muhammad Ali. I think it's probably reasonable to put him around the same level as the Street Fighter characters.

I personally like Go The Distance over Rope-A-Dope. R-A-D is an okay counterstrike with a fun (and totally fitting!) name, but GTD is the one that I think is going to accurately represent Ali's pedigree through gameplay.

NO-NAME
I've always been a big fan on Chitinous Armor (Or Armour, I suppose?) off of Annihilus.

CHITINOUS ARMOUR
When Annihilus is attacked with a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure, the most wounds he can receive from that attack is 1.

But I'm not sure about the technical accuracy of calling what No-Name has Chitin.

I think it would be good to brainstorm her and Miek together a little bit, cause they should probably compliment each other gameplay-wise. Like nothing major, but giving them a soft hook to want to play together. Just as an example:

NEVER STOPPING (On Miek)
If an adjacent Gladiator you control attacks an opponent's figure and does not inflict any wounds, you must roll an unblockable attack die against each figure adjacent to Miek.

BROOD EXOSKELETON (On No-Name)
If No-Name would receive exactly one wound from a special power that is not a special attack, you may ignore that wound.

PYM
Cool design, but I don't think he'll play thematically with the Octopus as-is. What the Octopus really wants is Scientists who can do things other than attack on their turn - Beast is a good example, his Negotiation means it's useful to take a turn with him, even if he can't attack. I'd tie Henri's attempts to "discover the serum" to his turn somehow, so the Octopus has good reasons to take turns with him.

[Sporx]

I didn't know that about BW and Kraven.

I am thinking the comic book Ali, not the real world... where he fights a depowered Superman and an alien champion. Not sure that it matters, but the design could be a little "looser" on reality. I am open to whatever.

From Wikipedia:

The Superman vs. Muhammad Ali match is broadcast on intergalactic television to thousands of other worlds (with Jimmy Olsen acting as broadcaster). With the match underway, it soon becomes apparent that in battling with more or less equal strength, Ali is the superior fighter since Superman generally relied on his incredible strength brought on by Earth's yellow sun to deal with threats quickly. Superman takes a serious pummeling, but somehow refuses to fall down; he stays on his feet all through the beating. Finally, Ali stops the fight, intending to call for a technical knockout, but Superman then falls face-first on the canvas (making the knockout more than technical). Ali personally takes care of Superman and orders him brought back to Earth to recuperate; a move which leaves Hun'Ya pondering.

Now crowned Earth's champion, Ali is set to face Hun'Ya, and to everyone's surprise, the goddess Pallas Athena makes an appearance to relay "the rules of fair play" for this contest into the champions' minds. Rat'Lar then asks Ali to predict at what round the fight will end (Ali was known for predicting the round in which he would knock out his opponent). After some chiding, Ali predicts that he will knock the alien out in the fourth round ("He'll hit the floor in four!"). Once the match begins, however, Ali quickly starts to suffer from fighting the super-powered Hun'Ya.

Meanwhile, Superman's great recuperative powers have enabled him to make a speedy recovery. Disguising himself as Ali cornerman Bundini Brown, he steals into the Scrubb command ship and sabotages their space armada. In his showdown with the armada, Superman is again badly hurt, and is left drifting in space.

Miraculously, Ali gets a second wind. In the predicted fourth round, he not only knocks the alien champion out, but out of the ring as well. Yet after witnessing Superman's decimation of his forces, the Scrubb leader cries foul and decides to destroy the now helpless Earth anyway. Just as Rat'Lar is about to give the go-ahead to his backup forces, his own champion Hun'Ya becomes enraged at Rat'Lar's treachery and deposes him, stopping the annihilation attack.

Superman is rescued and once again revived. Hun-ya, the new Scrubb leader, makes peace with Ali, Superman, and all of Earth. The very end of the book shows Ali and Superman in a private moment. Ali reveals that he figured out Superman's secret identity as Clark Kent, but implicitly vows to keep it secret. The book ends with the two champions embracing and Ali proclaiming, "Superman, WE are the greatest!"

[Sporx]

Re: @MrNobody - Thank you. Good ideas.

If R-A-D is dropped for GTD, that keeps him consistent with Daredevil II. I don't mind that at all.

[IAmBatman]

That write up does seem to sell Going the Distance for him.

But in terms of power level, all it really tells me is that he's a better boxer than equal strength Superman. His fighting all still seems to be exclusively in the context of boxing, with boxing rules and expectations, no armor or weapons, and no super powers.

[AlexH12]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

PYM
Cool design, but I don't think he'll play thematically with the Octopus as-is. What the Octopus really wants is Scientists who can do things other than attack on their turn - Beast is a good example, his Negotiation means it's useful to take a turn with him, even if he can't attack. I'd tie Henri's attempts to "discover the serum" to his turn somehow, so the Octopus has good reasons to take turns with him.

FOR JANETTE
You may only use this power if Henri's Species is Human. Before moving, you may roll one unblockable attack die against one adjacent enemy figure. If you roll a skull and the figure takes a wound, you may remove a wound marker from an adjacent friendly figure.

How's this?

[AlexH12]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

NO-NAME
I think it would be good to brainstorm her and Miek together a little bit, cause they should probably compliment each other gameplay-wise. Like nothing major, but giving them a soft hook to want to play together. Just as an example:

I like the dynamic between those two powers. If I use Brood Exoskeleton for No-Name, do you think I should scrap Hard Body?

[Sporx]

@IAmBatman - You are completely right. He isn't even bringing a knife to a gun fight... or clothes! With that perspective, I have a few questions:

1. Is 5 Attack too high? He doesn't have a weapon, reinforcing equipment, etc. He has padded gloves. Maybe 4, like Balrog?

2. Is 6 dice too many for Sting Like a Bee?

3. If we drop him down, should Rope A Dope stay? With the power already in the game, it is hard not to have it on him. It gives him an element of surprise/skill.

Thank you!
Potential revision:

NAME = MUHAMMAD ALI

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = FIGHTER
PERSONALITY = CONFIDENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = ~160?

FLOAT LIKE A BUTTERFLY
When moving normally, Muhammad Ali never takes leaving engagement attacks and may move one additional space as long as he ends his movement engaged.

STING LIKE A BEE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 1, 2, or 3.
Muhammad Ali starts each turn with 5 attack dice, and he may keep making special attacks with 1, 2, or 3 attack dice until he has rolled all 5 attack dice. When rolling attack dice for this Special Attack, if a skull is rolled on every die, the defending figure rolls one fewer defense die for the remainder of this turn.

ROPE-A-DOPE
If Muhammad Ali defends against an adjacent normal attack and does not receive a wound, you may roll an unblockable attack die against the attacking figure.

GO THE DISTANCE
Once per round, if Muhammad Ali would be destroyed by receiving wounds, he instead takes no damage.