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  #1  
Old September 23rd, 2016, 11:36 AM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point limit

I suppose it doesn't matter too much in a casual format, mainly with beginners, and with a definite lack of optimised synergy, and for example some common squads in singletons, but for the sake of a rough ballpark idea, if you've preselected some groups around 500 points but some of them are a bit over the 500, what are the best, easiest ways to throw in something to "even" it up a bit? Just use "points killed" as a final score, or is there some way to beef up, or nerf some units, or use initiative or glyphs etc (I dont know if there are point values associated with glyphs, seems doubtful).

Is it possible for example to put a wound on a common squad with 4 units and then "count" its points as 3/4 of the total? (as a quick example)?
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Old September 23rd, 2016, 12:36 PM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l

We used to use pre-built armies quite a bit and it is more than points you have to consider.

The lowest point army could be the most powerful.

Do you have a list of armies?

I think Keep what you Kill scoring is a pretty fare way to determine a victor in a multi-player game.

A cloud can change its semblance, yet retain its will
With the intimacy of destruction, One knows what it is to be alive
The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow
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  #3  
Old September 23rd, 2016, 01:13 PM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l


Well met!

If one army is a bit over, 10 points or so, and is weak (or the player is), and all the other players are OK with it (no one being a pr¥€£), no problem. Otherwise, rebuild, or give all the other players the extra points to add to (Isamu?) or modify (replace Valguard with the Airborne Elite?) their armies.

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  #4  
Old September 23rd, 2016, 01:25 PM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l

Yeah, I think mostly the problems are from trying to keep things too "in theme", I ended up with 28 armies close to 500 points but even I can see that some look loads better than others

1 Tor-Kul-Na
1 Kee-Mo-Shi
1 Marrden Hounds
1 Marro Drudge
1 Marro Drudge

2 Su-Bak-Na
2 Tul-Bak-Ra
2 Marro Stingers
2 Marro Stingers
2 Marro Dividers
2 Marro Drones

3 Wo-Sa-Ga
3 Grok Riders
3 Ne-Gok-Sa
3 Marro Warriors
3 Me-Burq-Sa
3 Marrden Nagrubs
3 Marrden Nagrubs

4 Marro Hive
4 Marro Hive -to be used primarily as terrain

5 Kato Katsuro
5 Tagawa Samurai
5 Kozuke Samurai
5 Tagawa Samurai Archers
5 Izumi Samurai
5 Isamu

6 Kaemon Awa
6 Moriko
6 Ninjas of the Northern Wind
6 Kumiko
6 Shaolin Monks
6 Shiori
6 Otonashi

7 Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior
7 Protectors of Ullar
7 Protectors of Ullar
7 Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
7 Theracus
7 Syvarris

8 Concan the Kyrie Warrior
8 Kelda the Kyrie Warrior
8 Sentinels of Jandar
8 Sentinels of Jandar
8 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior v2
8 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior v1 - pick one of the Raelin sculpts only

9 Taelord the Kyrie Warrior
9 Minions of Utgar
9 Minions of Utgar
9 Runa

10 Einar Imperium
10 Einar Imperium
10 Empress Kiova
10 Sonlen

11 Zetacron
11 Omnicron Repulsors
11 Omnicron Snipers
11 Omnicron Snipers
11 Sgt. Drake Alexander v1
11 Deathstalkers
11 Sgt. Drake Alexander v2 - pick one of the sculpts only

12 Major Q9
12 Major Q10
12 Major X17
12 Blastatrons
12 Blastatrons

13 Deathwalker 9000
13 Deathwalker 8000
13 Deathwalker 7000
13 Zettian Guards
13 Deathreavers
13 Deathreavers

14 Agent Carr
14 Krav Maga Agents
14 Nakita Agents
14 Airborne Elite
14 Sgt. Drake Alexander v1

15 Charos
15 Venoc Warlord
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers

16 Mimring
16 Fen Hydra
16 Armoc Vipers
16 Armoc Vipers
16 Elite Onyx Vipers

17 Braxas
17 Dund
17 Sudema
17 Shades of Bleakwoode

18 Zelrig
18 Brunak
18 Dumutef Guard
18 Granite Guardians
18 Obsidian Guards

19 Dzu-Teh
19 Evar Scarcarver
19 Frost Giant of Morh
19 Greater Ice Elemental
19 Ice Troll Berserker

20 Spartacus
20 Crixus
20 Sacred Band
20 Sacred Band
20 Sacred Band
20 Parmenio

21 Marcus Decimus Gallus
21 Master of the Hunt
21 Roman Archers
21 Roman Archers
21 Roman Legionnaires
21 Roman Legionnaires
21 Roman Legionnaires

22 Nilfheim
22 Eldgrim the Viking Champion
22 Finn the Viking Champion
22 Tarn Viking Warriors
22 Thorgrim the Viking Champion
22 Valguard

23 Knights of Weston
23 Knights of Weston
23 Knights of Weston
23 Sir Gilbert
23 Sir Denrick
23 4th Massachusetts Line
23 10th Regiment of Foot

24 Sir Hawthorne
24 Rhogar Dragonspine
24 Sir Dupuis
24 Templar Cavalry
24 Iron Golem

25 Krug
25 Arrow Gruts
25 Blade Gruts
25 Grimnak
25 Heavy Gruts
25 Swog Rider
25 Tornak

26 Jotun
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Death Chasers of Thesk

27 Shurrak
27 Torin
27 Feral Troll
27 Mind Flayer Mastermind

28 Ogre Pulverizer
28 Ogre Warhulk
28 Gurei-Oni
28 Eltahale
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  #5  
Old September 23rd, 2016, 01:41 PM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l


Well met!

I take it that this constitutes your entire collection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekoxe1 View Post
Yeah, I think mostly the problems are from trying to keep things too "in theme", I ended up with 28 armies close to 500 points but even I can see that some look loads better than others

1 Tor-Kul-Na
1 Kee-Mo-Shi
1 Marrden Hounds
1 Marro Drudge
1 Marro Drudge

2 Su-Bak-Na
2 Tul-Bak-Ra
2 Marro Stingers
2 Marro Stingers
2 Marro Dividers
2 Marro Drones

3 Wo-Sa-Ga
3 Grok Riders
3 Ne-Gok-Sa
3 Marro Warriors
3 Me-Burq-Sa
3 Marrden Nagrubs
3 Marrden Nagrubs

4 Marro Hive
4 Marro Hive -to be used primarily as terrain

5 Kato Katsuro
5 Tagawa Samurai
5 Kozuke Samurai
5 Tagawa Samurai Archers
5 Izumi Samurai
5 Isamu

6 Kaemon Awa
6 Moriko
6 Ninjas of the Northern Wind
6 Kumiko
6 Shaolin Monks
6 Shiori
6 Otonashi

7 Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior
7 Protectors of Ullar
7 Protectors of Ullar
7 Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
7 Theracus
7 Syvarris

8 Concan the Kyrie Warrior
8 Kelda the Kyrie Warrior
8 Sentinels of Jandar
8 Sentinels of Jandar
8 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior v2
8 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior v1 - pick one of the Raelin sculpts only

9 Taelord the Kyrie Warrior
9 Minions of Utgar
9 Minions of Utgar
9 Runa

10 Einar Imperium
10 Einar Imperium
10 Empress Kiova
10 Sonlen

11 Zetacron
11 Omnicron Repulsors
11 Omnicron Snipers
11 Omnicron Snipers
11 Sgt. Drake Alexander v1
11 Deathstalkers
11 Sgt. Drake Alexander v2 - pick one of the sculpts only

12 Major Q9
12 Major Q10
12 Major X17
12 Blastatrons
12 Blastatrons

13 Deathwalker 9000
13 Deathwalker 8000
13 Deathwalker 7000
13 Zettian Guards
13 Deathreavers
13 Deathreavers

14 Agent Carr
14 Krav Maga Agents
14 Nakita Agents
14 Airborne Elite
14 Sgt. Drake Alexander v1

15 Charos
15 Venoc Warlord
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers

16 Mimring
16 Fen Hydra
16 Armoc Vipers
16 Armoc Vipers
16 Elite Onyx Vipers

17 Braxas
17 Dund
17 Sudema
17 Shades of Bleakwoode

18 Zelrig
18 Brunak
18 Dumutef Guard
18 Granite Guardians
18 Obsidian Guards

19 Dzu-Teh
19 Evar Scarcarver
19 Frost Giant of Morh
19 Greater Ice Elemental
19 Ice Troll Berserker

20 Spartacus
20 Crixus
20 Sacred Band
20 Sacred Band
20 Sacred Band
20 Parmenio

21 Marcus Decimus Gallus
21 Master of the Hunt
21 Roman Archers
21 Roman Archers
21 Roman Legionnaires
21 Roman Legionnaires
21 Roman Legionnaires

22 Nilfheim
22 Eldgrim the Viking Champion
22 Finn the Viking Champion
22 Tarn Viking Warriors
22 Thorgrim the Viking Champion
22 Valguard

23 Knights of Weston
23 Knights of Weston
23 Knights of Weston
23 Sir Gilbert
23 Sir Denrick
23 4th Massachusetts Line
23 10th Regiment of Foot

24 Sir Hawthorne
24 Rhogar Dragonspine
24 Sir Dupuis
24 Templar Cavalry
24 Iron Golem

25 Krug
25 Arrow Gruts
25 Blade Gruts
25 Grimnak
25 Heavy Gruts
25 Swog Rider
25 Tornak

26 Jotun
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Death Chasers of Thesk

27 Shurrak
27 Torin
27 Feral Troll
27 Mind Flayer Mastermind

28 Ogre Pulverizer
28 Ogre Warhulk
28 Gurei-Oni
28 Eltahale
Definitely rebuild from scratch.
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  #6  
Old September 23rd, 2016, 02:18 PM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l

My classic meta is not what it used to be but it is not a horrible mix.
Some are certainly much stronger.

I would give newer players one of the stronger builds and have more experienced players pick random. We use to keep track of what we played and we could veto any army we had previously played.

A cloud can change its semblance, yet retain its will
With the intimacy of destruction, One knows what it is to be alive
The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow
- Eslo Rudkey
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  #7  
Old September 24th, 2016, 01:20 AM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l

Yeah this is everything I have. If anything I would be quite happy to sell on a few units since money is a bit tight at home, and I ended up collecting too much variety perhaps (though I did sell off quite a bit before so I used to have a lot more squad multiples).

I'm not getting rid of the big expensive dragons since I feel like I always want them to be a centrepiece, and I'm not buying any new units since (as an example) if I want the Greenscale combo with a dragon I will just use the viper minis and the greenscale stat cards and have the Fen Hydra as the lizardfolk leader etc, same thing with using my huge bag of spare Krav Maga as Microcorp, Vikings as Axegrinders etc.
@kolakoski , what would you rebuild from scratch?
@Tornado , yeah exactly I dont mind if some of them are quite a bit stronger, sometimes I will be playing with the kids so then its no bother, and total noobs, but Id also thought about adding wounds to some cards etc etc just to tone down any army that seems to be winning with ease all the time
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  #8  
Old September 24th, 2016, 08:53 AM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l

In that case I would just pick the armies for everyone at first. The fewer the cards, the better.

We used to play 400 point armies when we first started and I would always give new players Braxas and Nilfheim. Straight forward to run and super fun.

A cloud can change its semblance, yet retain its will
With the intimacy of destruction, One knows what it is to be alive
The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow
- Eslo Rudkey
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  #9  
Old September 24th, 2016, 05:17 PM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l


Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekoxe1 View Post

@kolakoski , what would you rebuild from scratch?
How many players should I build for?

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  #10  
Old September 25th, 2016, 02:08 AM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l

8-12 should be more than enough if you can be bothered, but really anything beyond 0 is a help isnt it
. I appreciate your time helping with this!
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Old September 25th, 2016, 04:01 AM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l

It would be just as useful if you could highlight which of the units in my collection would be "best" to get rid of (because they're commons with not enough to be useful, or because they're not useful with the stuff I have etc etc). If I can raise a bit of money but still keep a decent "play with the kids" core I'd be happy, I'll have a look at the figures again also and post some thoughts I have about stuff I could get rid of
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Old September 25th, 2016, 10:48 PM
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Re: Balancing Prebuilt Armies that don't all fit the point l



Well met!

"
It would be just as useful if you could highlight which of the units in my collection would be "best" to get rid of (because they're commons with not enough to be useful, or because they're not useful with the stuff I have etc etc). If I can raise a bit of money but still keep a decent "play with the kids" core I'd be happy, I'll have a look at the figures again also and post some thoughts I have about stuff I could get rid of" ~ekoxe1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekoxe1 View Post

1 Tor-Kul-Na
1 Kee-Mo-Shi
1 Marrden Hounds*
1 Marro Drudge
1 Marro Drudge

2 Su-Bak-Na
2 Tul-Bak-Ra
2 Marro Stingers
2 Marro Stingers
2 Marro Dividers**
2 Marro Drones*

3 Wo-Sa-Ga*
3 Grok Riders*
3 Ne-Gok-Sa
3 Marro Warriors
3 Me-Burq-Sa
3 Marrden Nagrubs
3 Marrden Nagrubs

4 Marro Hive
4 Marro Hive -to be used primarily as terrain

5 Kato Katsuro*
5 Tagawa Samurai
5 Kozuke Samurai
5 Tagawa Samurai Archers***
5 Izumi Samurai
5 Isamu

6 Kaemon Awa
6 Moriko
6 Ninjas of the Northern Wind
6 Kumiko
6 Shaolin Monks***
6 Shiori
6 Otonashi

7 Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior
7 Protectors of Ullar
7 Protectors of Ullar
7 Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
7 Theracus
7 Syvarris

8 Concan the Kyrie Warrior
8 Kelda the Kyrie Warrior
8 Sentinels of Jandar
8 Sentinels of Jandar
8 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior v2
8 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior v1 - pick one of the Raelin sculpts only

9 Taelord the Kyrie Warrior
9 Minions of Utgar
9 Minions of Utgar
9 Runa

10 Einar Imperium*
10 Einar Imperium*
10 Empress Kiova
10 Sonlen

11 Zetacron*
11 Omnicron Repulsors*
11 Omnicron Snipers
11 Omnicron Snipers
11 Sgt. Drake Alexander v1
11 Deathstalkers*
11 Sgt. Drake Alexander v2 - pick one of the sculpts only

12 Major Q9
12 Major Q10
12 Major X17
12 Blastatrons**
12 Blastatrons**

13 Deathwalker 9000
13 Deathwalker 8000
13 Deathwalker 7000
13 Zettian Guards
13 Deathreavers
13 Deathreavers

14 Agent Carr
14 Krav Maga Agents
14 Nakita Agents
14 Airborne Elite
14 Sgt. Drake Alexander v1

15 Charos
15 Venoc Warlord
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers
15 Venoc Vipers

16 Mimring
16 Fen Hydra
16 Armoc Vipers
16 Armoc Vipers
16 Elite Onyx Vipers*

17 Braxas
17 Dund
17 Sudema
17 Shades of Bleakwoode*

18 Zelrig*
18 Brunak
18 Dumutef Guard
18 Granite Guardians*
18 Obsidian Guards*

19 Dzu-Teh*
19 Evar Scarcarver
19 Frost Giant of Morh
19 Greater Ice Elemental
19 Ice Troll Berserker

20 Spartacus
20 Crixus
20 Sacred Band
20 Sacred Band
20 Sacred Band
20 Parmenio

21 Marcus Decimus Gallus
21 Master of the Hunt
21 Roman Archers
21 Roman Archers
21 Roman Legionnaires
21 Roman Legionnaires
21 Roman Legionnaires

22 Nilfheim
22 Eldgrim the Viking Champion
22 Finn the Viking Champion
22 Tarn Viking Warriors
22 Thorgrim the Viking Champion
22 Valguard

23 Knights of Weston
23 Knights of Weston
23 Knights of Weston
23 Sir Gilbert
23 Sir Denrick
23 4th Massachusetts Line**
23 10th Regiment of Foot*
24 Sir Hawthorne
24 Rhogar Dragonspine
24 Sir Dupuis
24 Templar Cavalry*
24 Iron Golem

25 Krug
25 Arrow Gruts*
25 Blade Gruts*
25 Grimnak
25 Heavy Gruts**
25 Swog Rider
25 Tornak

26 Jotun
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Horned Skull Brutes
26 Death Chasers of Thesk*

27 Shurrak
27 Torin
27 Feral Troll
27 Mind Flayer Mastermind

28 Ogre Pulverizer
28 Ogre Warhulk
28 Gurei-Oni*
28 Eltahale
* Means these single squads are relatively rare and/or expensive, and interesting and/or useful to a lot of folks. You can safely sell them, but you might want to buy more of the ones of particular interest to you personally.

** Means they are
relatively rare and/or expensive, but I'd endeavor to get more of them, as they are good units.

***
Means these single squads are relatively rare and/or expensive, and they are of particular interest to me.

* Means they are generally considered to suck. I'd sell them if I were you.

* Means that they are relatively inexpensive and easy to get, and really good units, too. Buy more.

** Means either sell these (Blastatrons) or buy Gladiatrons to go with them. Both are rare and expensive.

* Means really rare. I'd keep them, but you may want to sell one or more for big bucks.

I'd keep everything else. I'd also consider trading on this site. That's what I did with a number of the units I suggested you buy or sell, above.


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