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  #1105  
Old October 17th, 2014, 08:14 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dignan View Post
We're going to start working on some additional units here. Some units have been produced since the original list was made and I think they fall within the scope of this project. So below are the units we are going to start looking at:

Non-viable Unit List Additions

Ana Karithon
Ashigaru Yari
Brandis Skyhunter
Chardris
Emirroon
Erevan Sunshadow
Greater Ice Elemental
Jorhdawn
Kato Katsuro
Sahugin Raider
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Sir Dupuis
Ulginesh
This is a good list, I think. I would have put Kato on here, too, but Sparkle's comments have encouraged me to give him another try in my playtesting.

Greater Ice Elemental and Sahugin Raider both suffer from the fact that water terrain on nearly all maps is low ground and you'd be stupid in nearly (nearly) every case to go there. If they are still going to have water bonuses, they need to somehow actually make it worth giving height advantage to your opponent.
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  #1106  
Old October 18th, 2014, 01:04 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I remember reading a battle report where the players thought Saylind could summon opponants figures. Got me thinking:

After moving and before attacking, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 9 or higher you may choose a friendly figure. if you roll a 16 or higher you may choose an enemy figure. Move the chosen figure to any space adjacent to Saylind. If the summoned figure is engaged, the figure does not receive any leaving engagement attacks.

All of a sudden Saylind has some very interesting options.


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  #1107  
Old November 15th, 2014, 02:58 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I'd like to use some of these cards in place of the official ones, but was wondering how they've played out competitively.

Einar Imperium- The point reduction was a given, and evasive 2 really makes them competitive.I don't see the need to use the CUC of Empress Kiova with these guys, as the original version without triple attack seemed fine to me, plus her aura gains more utility with Evasive 2 in play.

Runa- Looks a lot more threatening.

Parmenio- I like the extension on his death defy, but a roll of 13 is pretty low, I guess I'll have to try it.

G-Nators- I'll use a version with auto shield vs all attacks, but I'm fine with them leaving their attack at 2. I think with 3 attack these guys are pushing into the A+ rankings. Compared to the Stingers they've got +1 range, equivalent of +1 defense, and +2 move, those are some pretty big power-ups, even for 30pts. more.
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  #1108  
Old November 15th, 2014, 03:43 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

I just played a game last night against my brother. He was using the Gorrillinator card you guys came up with. I changed it out from the original a while back, cause the old G-nators needed some more love. They were actually quite good paired up with C3Vs Zaeus figure. He kicked my vydar soulborg armies butt. They are tons much better with the attack of 3, I forgot about it until I was getting owned. I think I will still use you guy's card. I like them being a little too good than too bad.
Runa- wow, being able to kill everybody in a radious, I have had the priveledge of getting my trash kicked with this card too. Overall I like most of the changes you guys have done, thanks for putting in the time to do these. All units need a little lovin.

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  #1109  
Old November 15th, 2014, 07:08 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by TREX View Post
I just played a game last night against my brother. He was using the Gorrillinator card you guys came up with. I changed it out from the original a while back, cause the old G-nators needed some more love. They were actually quite good paired up with C3Vs Zaeus figure. He kicked my vydar soulborg armies butt. They are tons much better with the attack of 3, I forgot about it until I was getting owned. I think I will still use you guy's card. I like them being a little too good than too bad.
I agree, I'd rather them be a little too good than too bad, but 3 attack on that card is pushing it. Pretty sure they're going to stomp most armies. Whenever I've seen the official G-nators face an army without special attackers, they've held their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TREX View Post
Runa- wow, being able to kill everybody in a radious, I have had the priveledge of getting my trash kicked with this card too.
Yeah, she looks like she could do some damage.
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  #1110  
Old November 16th, 2014, 10:15 AM
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Dignan Dignan is offline
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSparkleInYourWater View Post
I'd like to use some of these cards in place of the official ones, but was wondering how they've played out competitively.

Einar Imperium- The point reduction was a given, and evasive 2 really makes them competitive.I don't see the need to use the CUC of Empress Kiova with these guys, as the original version without triple attack seemed fine to me, plus her aura gains more utility with Evasive 2 in play.
Kiova's change is more thematic and a way to give her something after in the cleanup stages. Triple attack melee typically doesn't have a huge impact as it requires a hero or a clump of commons to really impact the play.

Quote:
Runa- Looks a lot more threatening.
Yep, against melee she can be very imposing with a screen. But she is a glass cannon for sure.

Quote:
Parmenio- I like the extension on his death defy, but a roll of 13 is pretty low, I guess I'll have to try it.
In the 30+ tests I've run with it, it hasn't seemed too crazy. Sure there will be a game where there is a natural choke point and the aura has a huge impact AND Parmenio is hot with the dice, but that's a pretty extreme case.

Quote:
G-Nators- I'll use a version with auto shield vs all attacks, but I'm fine with them leaving their attack at 2. I think with 3 attack these guys are pushing into the A+ rankings. Compared to the Stingers they've got +1 range, equivalent of +1 defense, and +2 move, those are some pretty big power-ups, even for 30pts. more.
Gorrilinators seem to me to be the strongest unit we've made. Unfortunately, there isn't a way to give them attack 2.75. We've discussed them several times and I've thought of revisiting them. Dropping back down to 2 seems very weak. We tested them quite a bit that way. They aren't terrible, but they aren't a solid selection for a competitive army. We keep talking about bumping their points to 100 or 110.

Your comparison to stingers is missing on important thing, -1.5 figures. That's a huge difference over a 400 point build and difficult in comparisons. Their closest unit comparison (IMO), is Microcorp. Microcorp have better range, but are slower. Same attack from height. Microcorp have better durability. Microcorp have a mediocre water ability. Gorillas have better attack from low ground.

They are pretty comparable, I think. And while Microcorp are good, I don't think they are overpowered. But I do see how Gorillas at 100 makes sense. That said, in the three or four tournaments we've run with CUC cards allowed, the Gorillas (while very strong), have never won an event. The drow actually seem to be the best over the course of a tournament due to their flexibility (though you better be hot with the D20).

Thanks for your feedback. I enjoy the discussion and look at these units. Please share your experiences with the units. I'm always open to tweaking things here and there to get these guys just right.

Dignan's Maps - Dignan's Multiplayer Maps
Competitive Unit Congress
"It doesn't matter how you find the pot of gold, all that matters is that you beat the leprechauns".


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  #1111  
Old November 16th, 2014, 12:52 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dignan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSparkleInYourWater View Post
Parmenio- I like the extension on his death defy, but a roll of 13 is pretty low, I guess I'll have to try it.
In the 30+ tests I've run with it, it hasn't seemed too crazy. Sure there will be a game where there is a natural choke point and the aura has a huge impact AND Parmenio is hot with the dice, but that's a pretty extreme case.
Wow, that's a lot of testing, I'll have to take your word for it and try this one out. Should bring the Sacred Band up to par with the Romans.
Quote:
Quote:
G-Nators- I'll use a version with auto shield vs all attacks, but I'm fine with them leaving their attack at 2. I think with 3 attack these guys are pushing into the A+ rankings. Compared to the Stingers they've got +1 range, equivalent of +1 defense, and +2 move, those are some pretty big power-ups, even for 30pts. more.
Gorrilinators seem to me to be the strongest unit we've made. Unfortunately, there isn't a way to give them attack 2.75. We've discussed them several times and I've thought of revisiting them. Dropping back down to 2 seems very weak. We tested them quite a bit that way. They aren't terrible, but they aren't a solid selection for a competitive army. We keep talking about bumping their points to 100 or 110.

Your comparison to stingers is missing on important thing, -1.5 figures. That's a huge difference over a 400 point build and difficult in comparisons. Their closest unit comparison (IMO), is Microcorp. Microcorp have better range, but are slower. Same attack from height. Microcorp have better durability. Microcorp have a mediocre water ability. Gorillas have better attack from low ground.

They are pretty comparable, I think. And while Microcorp are good, I don't think they are overpowered. But I do see how Gorillas at 100 makes sense. That said, in the three or four tournaments we've run with CUC cards allowed, the Gorillas (while very strong), have never won an event. The drow actually seem to be the best over the course of a tournament due to their flexibility (though you better be hot with the D20).
I thought of stingers since they're the only other 3-figure common ranged squad with a base attack of 3. Microcorp make a good comparison too, though.

The Drow with bonding caught my attention as one to try, that helps fix 4 cards at once. Really seems like that should have been there from the start.
Quote:
Thanks for your feedback. I enjoy the discussion and look at these units. Please share your experiences with the units. I'm always open to tweaking things here and there to get these guys just right.
Thanks for sharing them.
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  #1112  
Old May 19th, 2016, 07:10 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

did this idea run out of steam? seems like a very cool project
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  #1113  
Old May 19th, 2016, 02:08 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekoxe1 View Post
did this idea run out of steam? seems like a very cool project
I think they got pretty much everything that needed changing. Plus a lot of C3V/SoV Customs (i.e. Crypt Guardian, Zettain Infantry, etc.) already act as a buff of sorts for less-favorable Official Units anyway.

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  #1114  
Old May 19th, 2016, 03:16 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekoxe1 View Post
did this idea run out of steam? seems like a very cool project
I think they got pretty much everything that needed changing. Plus a lot of C3V/SoV Customs (i.e. Crypt Guardian, Zettain Infantry, etc.) already act as a buff of sorts for less-favorable Official Units anyway.

~TAF
Yeah, it's combination of things. We got through many of the figures we were most concerned with, the main testing group shifted focus to other projects, and the website started fixing units with new customs.

That said, our group has continued to tweak some units, but the pace is slower and less standardized.

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Competitive Unit Congress
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  #1115  
Old May 19th, 2016, 03:34 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekoxe1 View Post
did this idea run out of steam? seems like a very cool project
There are a few other projects similar to this:


Rouby44's:http://www.heroscapers.com/community...light=official


Lefton4ya's http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ht=competitive


theSparkleinyourwater's: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=51051


wriggz's: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=48949


So there is no lack of buffed cards.


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  #1116  
Old January 26th, 2017, 03:55 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Congress

Quote:
Unit: Acolarh
Proposal: Reduce points from 110 to 80. Change LEAF OF THE HOME TREE AURA as follows, "When any elf you control within 8 clear sight spaces of Acolarh receives enough wounds to be destroyed, you may roll 10 12 Ullar Valkyrie dice..." Vote due July 1st.

Unit: Major X17
Proposal: Reduce points from 100 to 70. Change defense from 3 to 4. Change MELEE DEFENSE 4 to MELEE DEFENSE 3. Vote due September 6th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dignan View Post
We're going to start working on some additional units here. Some units have been produced since the original list was made and I think they fall within the scope of this project. So below are the units we are going to start looking at:

Non-viable Unit List Additions

Ana Karithon
Ashigaru Yari
Brandis Skyhunter
Chardris
Emirroon
Erevan Sunshadow
Greater Ice Elemental
Jorhdawn
Kato Katsuro
Sahugin Raider
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Sir Dupuis
Ulginesh
Any progress on this? Those deign proposals were from 2013. The non-Viable list was from 2014. I would be willing to join the group, playtest and vote, as well as come up with designs, as I always considered myself a wannabe member of the group anyway, with my CUA a lazy man's knockoff of the CUC. I have made my own versions of everything on the new non-viable list except Ana Karithon & Sir Dupuis, but I like the collaborative nature of projects like these as I might not have the best idea.
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