The Book of The Crow

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by quozl

So we can more easily see the suggested changes....

Current version:

NAME = THE CROW
SECRET IDENTITY = ERIC DRAVEN

SPECIES = UNDEAD
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = REVENANT
PERSONALITY = VENGEFUL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 190

LIVE FOR VENGEANCE
At the start of the game, choose an opponent's Unique Hero that is not The Crow and place the black Crow Marker on the chosen figure's card. While your Crow Marker is on another Army Card, that figure rolls one fewer defense die and The Crow will not take wounds from any attack. If the figure with your Crow Marker on its card is removed from the battlefield or receives one or more wounds from a normal or special attack, place your Crow Marker on this card.

SET THE WRONG THINGS RIGHT
If the Crow Marker is on this card and any other figure you control is attacked and destroyed by an opponent’s Unique Hero that is not The Crow, you may place the Crow Marker on the attacking Hero's Army Card.

DOUBLE ATTACK
When The Crow attacks, he may attack one additional time.

dok's version (changes marked by me):

May also want to highlight the change to his attack number.

[quozl]

Thanks! I missed that the Attack had changed from 4 to 3.

[dok]

I would summarize the changes like this:

• Event Hero instead of Unique Hero
• 3 attack instead of 4
• Marker can be on two unique cards instead of 1 unique hero
• Removed all mechanics about removing and placing markers during the game.
• Must attack a marker figure if possible (i.e. if it is a targetable option)
• Changed defense subtraction from 1 to 2 but restricted that to just from attacks by The Crow
• Nerfed "The Crow will not take wounds from any attack" down to "If The Crow would receive one or more wounds, ignore one of those wounds."
• Instead of losing his defensive power when the marker is not on an opponent's card, he leaves the game at the end of the round

[Tornado]

That is a big departure from LP's design.
If he gives it a thumbs up I am OK with it.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Tornado

That is a big departure from LP's design.
If he gives it a thumbs up I am OK with it.

Which is fair, IMO. I feel that should always be the standard. Some designs just need more redoing than simply small balance changes.

[Viegon]

Originally Posted by dok

I would summarize the changes like this:

• Event Hero instead of Unique Hero
• 3 attack instead of 4
• Marker can be on two unique cards instead of 1 unique hero
• Removed all mechanics about removing and placing markers during the game.
• Must attack a marker figure if possible (i.e. if it is a targetable option)
• Changed defense subtraction from 1 to 2 but restricted that to just from attacks by The Crow
• Nerfed "The Crow will not take wounds from any attack" down to "If The Crow would receive one or more wounds, ignore one of those wounds."
• Instead of losing his defensive power when the marker is not on an opponent's card, he leaves the game at the end of the round

I'd cut the "must attack a marker figure" for simplicity, but otherwise I'm fine with that version.

[Tornado]

I am going to need approval from @Lord Pyre

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by Tornado

I am going to need approval from @Lord Pyre

I don't like 90% of it. I already told you guys that. This is a figure I would never be excited about designing, much less drafting. There's no fun in someone who can only attack a few figures and leaves the game by himself.

That said, do what you need to do. I just gave a bunch of input that you guys didn't listen to anyway. If you truely think this will make for a design that's fun to play, then sure. I haven't been around in a while so maybe I'm just not seeing it.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

There's no fun in someone who can only attack a few figures

I've repeatedly noted that this is not how that power would work...

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

That said, do what you need to do. I just gave a bunch of input that you guys didn't listen to anyway. If you truely think this will make for a design that's fun to play, then sure. I haven't been around in a while so maybe I'm just not seeing it.

I think the problem there is that a lot of your input didn't address the competitive issues, which is why we're making changes in the first place. I'm much less interested in changing theme than I am in making a design that's fun and not unbalanced.

What about the last couple proposed versions don't you like? What about the original design do you feel most needs to stay?

[Smithy Winfred]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I recognise that, and it's a big problem. What I'd suggest as an alternative would be something along the lines of what Smithy suggested a year ago:

Hey, glad I could help from the great beyond

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by dok

NAME = THE CROW
SECRET IDENTITY = ERIC DRAVEN

SPECIES = UNDEAD
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = REVENANT
PERSONALITY = VENGEFUL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 190

SET THE WRONG THINGS RIGHT
At the start of the game, place a Vengeance Marker on up to 2 Unique Army Cards your opponent controls. When The Crow attacks, he must attack a figure with one of your Vengeance Markers on its card, if possible. Any figure with your Vengeance Marker on its Army Card rolls 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Crow.

LIVE FOR VENGEANCE
If The Crow would receive one or more wounds, ignore one of those wounds. At the end of the round, if all figures with any of your Vengeance Markers on their cards have been destroyed, place The Crow on this card.

DOUBLE ATTACK
When The Crow attacks, he may attack one additional time.

The more I think about this version, the more I come around on it (though I made a wording tweak that should hopefully fix some mechanical murkiness). Is this something everyone can get on board with (besides LP, who hasn't offered an alternative)?