Is the Silver Surfer Too Much For Classic 'Scape?

[Lord3]

Don't have ANY of wave 7 yet... so sad

[jcb231]

Originally Posted by Lord3

Don't have ANY of wave 7 yet... so sad

Just print the card and use another figure to stand in. It's how I play with Gurei Oni and Sujoah and the other unreleased characters.

[MinhBinh]

Originally Posted by StLouisBear

Oh, he's not invincible. I had the misfortune of landing on the glyph of Proftaka and thus losing the essential ability of striking and then running away. This let my opponent's Krav Maga agents set up 7 spaces away, out of my range but within theirs and keep taking pot shots until he bled to death one wound at a time. I couldn't get another figure all the way across the board in time to free SS.

Thing is, if I know that Proftaka is a possible glyph when I play with face-down glyphs, I don't think that I would ever land SS on a glyph while he was doing his guerrilla attacks. I never keep him in one place anyways, any glyphs I reveal (especially close to enemy territory) would probably help them more than it would help me.

[To Serve Man]

Gotta love the Silv Surfer. He is fun to use and looks awesome

[rdhight]

I just played this army on a small, flattish map:

320 Silver Surfer
180 Stingers x3

I lost to this:

150 Venom
150 Major Q10
200 Microcorp Agents x2

The Major suffered on two-hex-unfriendly hillsides, and he fell first. Venom was able to put the last three wounds on the Surfer in one blow, and then he and the agents double-teamed my remaining stingers. Toward the end I got desperate and started rolling for the drain all the time, hoping to rack up a few last big kills before it was over. So I lost a couple stingers that way. Still, I think it goes to show that the Surfer, while powerful, is not more power than 320 points should buy you.

[Onion Knight]

(I'm asking because I don't know...)
Is the spirit of the question posed by this thread that Silver Surfer is overpowered when going against classic armies? I happen to think that he is, if that's the question. Most people in this post who argue that he isn't overpowered are supporting their argument with armies which contain a marvel figure. If that is the case then I would say that he isn't broken.
Also as a follow up...
Our tournament (2nd) here in Louisville is coming up and when asked whether or not anyone wants to include Marvel figs or not, this year, the result is an overwhelming no. I think that a major reason for that is the Surfer problem. As I whined earlier in this thread (shortly after our first tournament) the winner of the tournament had Surfer, Rats, and DED. No one came close to him, especially the ones who had a classic only army. (He did allow a player new to the game to win in the last match which he could have easily won.)
Thoughts?

Oh yeah, we weren't using glyphs.

[tyguy94920]

I disagree

Silver is his own Meta-game, and pretty much a very expencive mobile Q9

He can only attack once, of 4, 5, or 6 on most tourney maps, and suited to take out uniques

An orc army I can see easily taking him out if you can catch him, which is really his only annoying factor

Getting lucky with the D20 is the most effective way of destroying him, and something you can't do with Q9

I think I fear Q9 more because he cost half as much, so you can have that much more or your army to support him, and he cannot be taken out with a lucky shot with the D20

Like Q9 he makes you drawn into certian picks to easily destroy him, witch are easily destroyed by other armies

Cypren, Chompy, Braxis are all relible Marvel counters

Is he powerful, yes

Is he undefetable, no

[Onion Knight]

Originally Posted by tyguy94920

I disagree

Silver is his own Meta-game, and pretty much a very expencive mobile Q9

He can only attack once, of 4, 5, or 6 on most tourney maps, and suited to take out uniques

An orc army I can see easily taking him out if you can catch him, which is really his only annoying factor

Getting lucky with the D20 is the most effective way of destroying him, and something you can't do with Q9

I think I fear Q9 more because he cost half as much, so you can have that much more or your army to support him, and he cannot be taken out with a lucky shot with the D20

Like Q9 he makes you drawn into certian picks to easily destroy him, witch are easily destroyed by other armies

Cypren, Chompy, Braxis are all relible Marvel counters

Is he powerful, yes

Is he undefetable, no

Everyone is defeatable when the dice aren't on your side.
I'm sorry but I can't see an orc army faring well against him.
Q9 isn't comparable because he is much slower.
Surfer's imbalance comes from the Hyper Speed 5. When you get locked down with other units, Surfer can zip in, hit you with a normal attack of 4 (or even 5 with height) and then zip out. It makes it incredibly difficult to catch him. But at least he has 6 life. (Sarcasm)
Surfer could make short work of Braxas and Grimnak. The Krav, IMO, are the most effective classic counter to him. But even at that... I love to hate him.

[Nadom]

As with almost any conversation about classic vs. marvel, the Silver Surfer's disadvantage is that he can only attack once per turn. He is my single favorite unit to play (look at my avatar!), but it takes FOREVER for him to kill a squad-based army. You can take him down by multiple attacks (especially range and especially with the Krav) sustained over several turns. And really, should it take any less? The guy is basically a Demigod who is fairly pointed at 320 points. Look at this comparison:

320 pts of Silver Surfer - 1 attack per turn, 6 life
320 pts of Ashigaru Yari - 4 attacks per turn, 32 life
320 pts of Venoc Vipers - at least 3 attacks per turn, 24 life
200 pts of Arrow Gruts + 120 pts of Krug - 5 attacks per turn, 23 life
and the list goes on...

Surfer is almost unbeatable one-on-one... so don't play him one-on-one. Swarm the silver crap out of him.

[Onion Knight]

I agree Nadom. Swarming him is a way to go, but remember the Stealth Flying. You can't lock him down. And you could use 100 Ashigaru Yari or Venocs and never put a dent in him. All the while he plays "Mr. Zippy Pants with the Hyper Speed." And with the Gruts, once Krug falls from a 4 or 5 attack followed by Hyper Speed, the gruts will be useless. (And don't forget there are still 180 points of Surfer's Army to deal with.)

[IAmBatman]

Arrow gruts have the disengage to slip around rats, with a few swogs they have both the range and the power to swarm Surfer and attack him effectively. Their move of six combined with their range and the low price (thus numbers) can help them swarm Surfer and keep him in striking distance. Mix in not only Krug for a few powerful hits and some staying power with the high life, but also Mimring for a ranged flier with range of 8 and attack of 4. If anyone can keep up with Surfer and get off shots on him, it's Mimring. The bonus is that you get to move Mimring AND an entire squad of Arrow Gruts on the same turn. I think an Arrow Grut based army could be all kinds of trouble for Surfer.
And if you want an army that will lock him down, think about a glad/blast combo. Then you could lock him up with the gladiators on the front line and fire away with your gladiatrons. 320 points buys a lot of soulborgs.

[Nadom]

That's exactly what I mean, IAmBatman. Another worthwhile counter is Theracus and Major X17. It's a little bit unorthodox, but can lock down SS if he's not careful. Not a bad 140 points against a 320 point monster.