The Book of Man-Bat

[Arkham]

I feel he's already been gutted a bit power wise with all of the lowering of his stats and settling for a less effective defensive power, but I'm not opposed I suppose. I'm not looking to have him abused.

[Ronin]

He is beefier than Vulture or the Man-Bat Assassins, so if you wanted to build a strategy around dropping people in dangerous places (ie near auto-wounders like Electro or War Machine), Man-Bat would do that for you a little more reliably, while chipping in the odd wound himself. Man-Bat isn't efficient enough to be a real worry in that schema (Martian Manhunter plus Man-Bat plus Electro is already north of 600 points), but it is something that would bear testing.

I don't think Martian Manhunter (or other out-of-turn movers) team-ups are a big concern, but if you want to do out-of-turn Claw Carry, I do think it'll end up being a big part of his value.

May as well get the CRB opinion.


@dok , @Dysole , @weebaer , @Soundwarp

[TrollBrute]

Yea Though I'm with V that out-of-turn Claw Carry isn't needed.

Also, you don't actually need a cost for Initial testing. Figuring out a cost is what the Initial is for. Just make sure we get the CRB's input beforehand.

[dok]

With Claw Carry limited to in-turn normal movement, there's zero metagame concern. Yes, you can pull guys near Warmachine or somesuch, but there's a ton of other figure movers what can do that too. He offers some potential increased efficiency to a Creature build (move up two heroes at once) but it's marginal at best.

If you allow out-of-turn claw carry, then I immediately want to team him up with Martian Manhunter (I). Whether that's a problem or not is a matter of opinion, but I suspect that build would drive the price.

[Karat]

I'd still prefer a different name than Claw Carry, but I won't hold things up over that, yea.

[Arkham]

You're welcome to brainstorm some ideas if you want. I'm not dead set on the name.

[Karat]

I've been thinking on it. So far rhe best I have come up wirh is Talon Grab.

[Arkham]

This passes on time.

[Arkham]

I'm gonna leave this here for later:

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Man-Bat

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this character's powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 180-190
- Give a brief overview. Man-Bat went 4-1 in solo games, but 3/4 wins were very close, 2 of which came down to just 1 wound away. In Jean's and Daredevil's cases, they had a lot of bad luck with their d20 rolls.
Map: Custom

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Units: Daredevil
Summary:Man-Bat kept moving Daredevil around, but only once did it result in an auto-wound. Daredevil failed all of his Radar Sense rolls, and thus was killed after a few attacks.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?
Man-Bat with 1 wound.

TEST 2
Units: Punisher
Summary:Punisher shot from afar, but Man-Bat blocked. Man-Bat grabbed Punisher but did not cause any auto-wounds. Punisher used Machine Gun multiple times, causing wounds on Man-Bat, and Man-Bat failed his Fighting for Control roll which locked him down.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?
Punisher with 3 wounds.

TEST 3
Units: Jean Grey
Summary:Jean was failing a lot of her Grasp and Telekinesis rolls. Man-Bat got a couple of his auto-wounds, and it was a close finish, but Man-Bat pulled it out after an attack.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?
Man-Bat with 4 wounds.

TEST 4
Units: Molly Hayes
Summary:Man-Bat received a good number of wounds early on, passed his rolls a couple of times but then failed for the rest of the game. Molly was also fatigued for a couple of rounds. Man-Bat ends up getting the edge after a botched defense.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?
Man-Bat with 5 wounds.

TEST 5
Units: Red Hood
Summary:Man-Bat botched 4 defenses in a row, but managed to stay alive and hit a big attack on Red Hood. He also caused 1 wound with Claw Carry.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?
Man-Bat with 5 wounds.

___________________________________________________________

Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 180
- Give a brief overview. Against the Vampire Minions their attacks were too much for Man-Bat, especially if they hit their roll to attack again. Against the Amazon Warriors Man-Bat got the best of them through picking them up and dealing auto-wounds multiple times per turn, as well as multiple attacks when he had wounds on him.
Map: Custom

Spoiler Alert!

Vampire Minions x 2
Who won and how many wounds did they have?
3 Vampire Minions remaining(full squad).

Amazon Warriors x 2
Who won and how many wounds did they have?
Man-Bat with 4 wounds.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Map: Custom
Units:
Man-Bat(180), Frankenstein(320), Abomination(360)(860)
vs.
Red Ghost(200), Super Apes(500), Gorilla Man(160)(860)

Spoiler Alert!

Attack Damage:
R1T3: 1 wound on Gorilla Man.
R2T1: 1 wound on Red Ghost.

Claw Carry Damage:


Fighting for Control:
R1T1: Succeeds roll.
R1T2: Succeeds roll.
R1T3: Failed roll.
R2T1: Succeeds roll.

Notes:
R1T2: Gorilla Man puts 1 wound on Frank.
R1T3: Gorilla Man puts 3 wounds on Man-Bat.
R2T1: The Super Apes and Red Ghost end up putting 4 wounds on Frank.
R2T2: Peotor kills Frank.
R2T3: Red Ghost and the Super Apes kill Man-Bat(botched defense on the 3rd attack).
R3T2: Abomination puts 2 wounds on Igor.
R3T3: Miklo puts 2 wounds on Abomi.
R4T1: Abomi. kills Igor.
R4T1: Miklo puts 4 wounds on Abomi with a botched defense, then throws him for an unblockable and kills him.


Red Ghost with 3 wounds, Gorilla Man with 1 wound, Miklo and Peotor with 0 wounds.

Man-Bat carries Frankenstein to the middle, Gorilla Man leads the charge. Man-Bat and Frankie ignore Gorilla Man and stay the course towards the Super Apes and Red Ghost. Frankie gets thrown adjacent to the Super Apes and destroyed rather quickly, and Man-Bat struggles as he fails his FFC roll, then fails his auto wound another turn after moving Red Ghost. Man-Bat is quickly killed, and then Abomination does his best and kills Igor but is then killed by Miklo after a botched defense and auto wound.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Custom
Units:
Man-Bat(180), Frankenstein(320), Lizard(200), War Machine(270)(970)
vs.
Iron Man MK V, Iron Man MK IV, Iron Man MK III, Iron Man MK II, Iron Man MK I(970)

Spoiler Alert!

Attack Damage:
R3T2: 2 wounds on MK II.

Claw Carry Damage:
R2T3: 1 wound on MK V.
R3T1: 1 wound on MK V.

Fighting for Control:
R3T1: Succeeds roll.
R3T2: Fails roll.

Notes:
R1T2: Iron Man MK V puts 2 wounds on War Machine, MK IV kills War Machine.
R1T3: MK V puts 2 wounds on Frank.
R1T3: Frankenstein kills MK IV.
R2T1: Frank kills MK III(botched defense).
R2T3: MK V puts 2 wounds on Man-Bat(botched defense), MK II kills Frank(botched defense).
R3T3: MK V kills Man-Bat.
R4T1: MK II puts 2 wounds on Lizard.
R4T2: MK II kills Lizard.


Iron Man MK V with 2 wounds, Iron Man MK II with 2 wounds, and Iron Man MK I with 0 wounds.

War Machine led the charge, got into position, but was killed quickly by both Iron Man MK V and IV. This negated the strategy of placing them within Chain Gun range then outside, and then back in. Man-Bat carried Frank to the middle. They did some decent damage, killing MK IV, but then Frankenstein was devastated by an attack and killed. Man-Bat did some auto wounds on MK V and hurt MK II, but was killed. Lizard did his best but was killed.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I like how Man-Bat plays, but I felt his defense led to wounds quickly, and it wasn't difficult for the enemy to get adjacent each time considering his goal is to carry them for a potential wound, and he has no range, so his Evasive Flying didn't come to use much to keep him in the fight. I'd say he plays around 170 in actual team games.

[Arkham]

Updated with initials.

[Ronin]

At a skim, it looks like you were running him with just the in-turn Claw Carry? If so, I could definitely see him coming in more like 170.

[Arkham]

Yeah, just the in-turn one.