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Old September 29th, 2021, 06:34 PM
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SchismaticSounds SchismaticSounds is offline
 
Join Date: July 29, 2020
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Re: Rat Faction 9/29/21- 3D Print Expansion

@flameslayer93

My my... Thank you for giving an analysis on all of these! It is exactly what I need and have been looking for. Outside perspective, reputable at that.
And it is a pleasure.

Many of the points, not all, I do have plans to address with the coming second set.
I'll address them separately at the bottom or sparingly throughout.

It is only somewhat recently that I've really began to playtest all of the possible options going on. Some of the odd mechanics still show from a free form lesser experienced time that these were first developed. Many point values have been cut back before finding a way to give something more utility or power. I've learned it's not very fun to design a custom that you keep have to cheapen for its inconsistency.

Rats of Bergda, Tower & Swarm
Lately, I've tested a few times having a single swarm with 3-6 rats for the wererat, wooger growth synergy and occasionally using them as swarming pests in the mid-late game. The Tower is Unique. It doesn't necessarily have to be, but I am not sure if I'd see multiple wanting to be drafted, and the unique theme sticks with me a bit
I've also taken your advice on giving the tower more attack potential and instead of 4 or double, I've given it 5 to save on wording.
Only recently have the spawners began to function decently, with the life removal, turn/spawn order synergy and how they get replaced with a lesser version. Tower into Swarm, Swarm into single Rat. Changes like these relieve me for the amount of progress achieved, but as is noticed, there's still more to be done.

I think I do need to do playtests with slightly lower points, 400 like you say. Doing any more helps to test many units at once, but seems it may lower analyzing a specific set of units potential more accurately. Going a bit mad here with everything I need to Playtest lol! Why your speculation is so appreciated.

I will consider the point change to 35 for the Rats with more testing.
The Tower has 20 Life, because that is the number of rats that are on the model I'm using, except for one that might be in the middle. and 7 on the Swarm.

The Rats of Bergda, Swarm and Tower are definitely in a different place to balance than ordinary. My playtesting experience is also not very well excelled yet when it comes to map choice and opposing team choice.


Ratkin Squads

Underbred Cogs
Not a lot I have to say in response here. I concur with your comparisons and they will be a useful reference to come back to. The Ratkin Hero bonding wasn't too much to deal with when it was only all the heroes we have here. Maneek was a late inclusion to all of these and I address this as being why he is in a less finished state.
But when thinking of future inclusions, it does arise such a predicament.
Thematically, I think what supports this bonding as it is, is that that they are common slaves. They need what ever help they can get really, and having that diverse amount of characters available makes it interesting.

What I have done for these guys, is add a pairing 2 figure squad in the new set.
"Slave Drivers" - Their ability 'Get to Work' gives the cogs +1 attack and move when they begin their turn adjacent to a Slave Driver. There are also 2 new Warlords being added. One of which has an attack +1 aura. Things start to get a bit crazy with Gregz -1 defense aura and the banner wielders auras, but there's some of that it classic/vc too it seems. Just needs to be managed a bit.
It shouldn't ever be too late to limit the Cogs' bonding or strategize it with time, once both sets have been laid out. That's what this project is all about.

Slave Slingers
That does make sense. I have lacked in seeing these guys as better than the Cogs initially, since they may not have been before some changes.
Being between the Harquebus and Arrow Gruts, 50 points sounds about right. I have not tried them with any other Rogue hero besides Spoon. 4 ranged figures with a bonding does seem hefty though. perhaps even 55, but because of their reduced attack when engaged, 50 is probably right. They become more of a nuisance for the opponent at that point or body shields.

Skiving Fodder
Correct. I must have missed that edit when converting all of the 'medium Rats' into Ratkin. Great analysis on points and what use would be nice having them paired with Ratkin Heroes. I feel they are close to Cathar, but maybe quite as par to them. Cathar should be about 80 though tbh, so that is where I have Skiving at 75. 70 sounds nice, but would require a fair bit of testing to figure. I find that in their ideal situation with them attacking a figure with +1 attack, -1 def on that figure, their optional second attack should in most cases be able to deal with any mid level non hero figure they are dealing with, unless the attack is whiffed. Any less than that this ideal situation is certainly a risk, unless it is a low defense figure, in which case they would shred.


Ratkin Heroes

Occult of Giza
Good points on this heroes speculation. That makes enough sense to me now that last sentence isn't needed.
As you said, using one as a unit that sits in the back is one setting they work in.
I have added a squad in set 2, currently named Rat Wolves. They bond with an occult Hero. They aren't terribly strong and the theme fits. Playtesting them has yielded some positive results to benefit the Occults' use in the center fields.


Cursed Wererat
Yes, I suppose my main reasons that I enjoy these guys as common heroes are. #1, there is only 1 pose for this model. #2 I like being able to draft a variant number of these guys with their use besides the Occult and less useful Werewolf Lord. I see what you mean with the traditional bonding setup. I'm not aware of the problems an exception like this would have, but am okay with it as a sparing exception.
I think that Unleashed Frenzy could use a word change so that it is used for all Cursed Wererats once per turn.
I just today considered giving them 6 movement since their falling behind from being able to engage can really hinder their attack output and I found myself wanting them to have 6 whenever an Occult transformed one. This would maybe bring them back to 20 points however.
Anubian Wolves also have 6 movement.


Prowling Wooger
Prowling Wooger is a lot of fun and maybe one of the cheesier characters here. With a reserve of Wererats or Rats, the transformation process is pretty fun.
The notable downsides are, besides taking a wound with a failed SA, the opponent doesn't feel they are a threat enough to deal with once they are engaged. I thought to help them with this by giving either 4 attack or 4 defense. Experimenting with 4 defense which helps them lock up a bit what figures are around them, and they could use the extra survivability.

One difference between the Wooger and Kursus is that Kursus's SA affects a figure and all figures surrounding that figure. Pretty powerful. I did not notice it for a while. And then they have their con differences.
Since the defense up to 4, I could see a point raise to 50, but since Pouncing Wooger is single targeting, it doesn't quite match up with Sonic Fists.


Dregz
Dregz aura certainly does help the cogs. I have not yet playtested enough with them to see it in action however, as the situation with the cogs has been noted, they need whatever edge in battle they can get.
Trophies.. and to think I once made it to county spelling bee :d
I could see his points going up a bit too. The Skara flagbearer I am adding has a lesser version of Gothloks -1 def aura, being within 2 range. Having too many of these could deem problematic, though they aren't the tankiest bunch in the world. A bit Raelin counter-y.


Harping Officer
This guy sits in the most of peculiar spots in the bunch.
Actually, his chaining bonding here is entirely intended lol. Pretty unorthodox, but unless it is taboo, I don't see the chains as being too much more efficient here than anything else other than having the benefit of open options.
I couldn't argue that he is very much needed either. I will need to playtest him beside the Skiving Fodder even more. One of the hinderances with him and Kato Katsuro to remember is that they can't take a turn with any figure that is not in clear sight of them. So once they wrap around any terrain, they are left there unless repositioned or OM switch. The reason for 2 felt more necessary when they couldn't be one of the 2 heroes to take a turn with, so it was to help them spread out to benefit their clear sight, but not it's just an option.
Could see a point increase now.


Banner Wielder
Thanks for mentioning the name blandness haha. I'll try and work on that. So many different characters that start like this, such as all the new prototype squads, that it can be hard to find the right names for everyone.
I'll consider Skaran Inspirer!
I wasn't too fond of these guys, but I plan on changing their models to be much more fitting with flags which might help.

These guys actually were kind of fun to play the one time I playtested them, and their strategic setting up is really important. I agree that spending points on them instead of more forces is the best thing they 'don't' have going for them. I think the max of +1 will also be important in keeping the Cogs in check.


Spoon
Bonding Spoon with Cogs does seem like a fun option I need to try.
There may be some changes needed on wandering shooter again, or point raise in question. When coming up with this guy, I had 'Twitch' in mind from LoL (A game I don't play anymore for a while). But the movement pattern of these ranged characters in the game, "attack damage carries", has a 'Shoot, pause, move, shoot' pattern to it that I wanted to copy. This evasive maneuver is referred to as kiting and is also used offensively.


Warrow
That is a good idea to just make Warrow a Rogue. He'd certainly get more play this way with the Slingers. And good idea to raise the stealing roll.


Maneek
As mentioned earlier, this guy came together a time after the rest. Has not been playtested with the Cogs yet. I didn't think he was super strong, but when you mention the buffs/debuffs, there certainly is some spicy potential here.

Band of Gypsies I'd say is still in an early phase, and I've only recently added this card to the thread. I'll have to look for that post on Out of turn attacks. Understandable why to stay away from that territory.
Something like Zogross' opportunity strike may have been what I was thinking, but for figures surrounding Maneek.
I will consider dropping it in playtesting.

More Rats, Coming Up!!!

It brings me joy to receive so much feedback.
I hope that I can return the favor in reviewing some of your customs sometime and to the rest of the community, and hope you enjoy any of the other Rats you analyze here.

The new Prototypes are being updated each day. I wish I could paint them and give them the full Art for the cards sooner, but that will likely be even after their settled release. May just photos of the printed figures in the meantime.

Here are the new additions I mentioned that will have synergies with these guys:
Skara Heroes and
Squads being:
Maces
Flails - bonding with Maneek
Slave Drivers for Cogs
Hybrid Wolves for Occult of Giza

Last edited by SchismaticSounds; September 30th, 2021 at 03:49 AM.
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