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  #133  
Old June 19th, 2016, 10:23 AM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

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Originally Posted by BigThumbToe View Post
Looks great! I have a bench and flower pots that would go great in front. Have you put any thought into making access doors for on top of the buildings? You could even put a helicopter landing spot on one of the side buildings for some more character.
Both are great ideas. I am playing with doors on the 3rd floor of the big building to access roofs on the smaller ones. Only thing is that this limits the flexibility. If u don't put a building on the side u have a door looking dumb on the side of the building.

What if the helicopter pad was elevated a few hexes and could be moved around?

Trying to think what else about this could be modular. Maybe a 4 story narrow building that can go on top of the main one?
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  #134  
Old June 19th, 2016, 10:50 AM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Some sort of a 'door sticker' would allow to add and remove upper floor doors at will.

The Hospital is looking great!

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  #135  
Old June 19th, 2016, 12:37 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

I've seen buildings with random doors that lead to no where...you could also add a platform and fire stairs if you wanted. Turn it into emergency egress.

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  #136  
Old June 20th, 2016, 11:46 AM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

I really want to add one more part to this building structure. I like the idea of combining 2,3 and 4 story structures to create a medical complex (which could actually be re-branded to many other things like a museum, asylum, office complex, government building and so on).

Problem is I can't decide on a tower size that works the best. Below are three versions. In all three the first floor buildings are all the same. It is only variation in the tower. And this is WIP so please ignore the mistakes in the roof on the main building and the half windows due to building overlap.

I should note that all of this can still be printed on standard 8.5x11 paper with no need to combine two printouts for 1 side of a building (as in Grishnakh's 8 story tall building for example where you need to print outs for each side of the building).

A)
Good: Visually I like this, it feels solid and looks good. It is symmetrical and the tower can go on either of the side buildings as well. A helicopter landing pad would fit on top of any of the 3 building sizes.

Bad: Since it is the same depth as the main building it limits movement between the sides. One would need two elevators in the front (one going up each side). And then you would need 2 more for access from the back. That is 4 elevators in all...which feels like too much.

B)
Good: Cosmetically still feels substantial and looks good IMHO. More importantly it accommodates for movement from side to side and around the front (I am a big fan of less restriction on movement). It might fit a helicopter landing pad on top.

Bad: It is not symmetrical side to side

C)
Good: Offers lots of movement around the roofs. It offers symmetrical placement

Bad: Feels a bit less realistic with the shallow tower. Helicopter pad will not fit on top.

I am currently leaning towards Option C.

3 WIP options:


One general complication is the use of elevators and the side buildings. Perhaps I just have elevators go up the main middle building and use ladders to move up and down to the side roofs.

Regarding doors to upper roofs. I see three approaches:

1) put doors out onto roofs to support a "suggested" build where the doors make sense. This would greatly limit building placement.

2) restrict door placement to first floors. I am thinking a single side door on each secondary building (not the main middle one). This would create flexibility in layout and the use of stairs. Currently I favor this idea.

3) have doors as separate parts that get placed via magnets or other vodoo. To be honest I like this conceptually, but doesn't feel easy to implement. I want to balance the qty of parts and flexibility. I like 4 buildings that can be combined in many ways...but too many small parts starts to feel like a pain to produce.


Generally I like the direction this is going but I do have some obstacles to overcome.

Any other feedback before I plow ahead?

And thanks for listening, it is helpful to get ones ideas out The exercise of talking this out helps me better understand what I want to do. But I am very much interested in any feedback others might have.
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  #137  
Old June 20th, 2016, 02:57 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
I really want to add one more part to this building structure. I like the idea of combining 2,3 and 4 story structures to create a medical complex (which could actually be re-branded to many other things like a museum, asylum, office complex, government building and so on).

Problem is I can't decide on a tower size that works the best. Below are three versions. In all three the first floor buildings are all the same. It is only variation in the tower. And this is WIP so please ignore the mistakes in the roof on the main building and the half windows due to building overlap.

I should note that all of this can still be printed on standard 8.5x11 paper with no need to combine two printouts for 1 side of a building (as in Grishnakh's 8 story tall building for example where you need to print outs for each side of the building).

A)
Good: Visually I like this, it feels solid and looks good. It is symmetrical and the tower can go on either of the side buildings as well. A helicopter landing pad would fit on top of any of the 3 building sizes.

Bad: Since it is the same depth as the main building it limits movement between the sides. One would need two elevators in the front (one going up each side). And then you would need 2 more for access from the back. That is 4 elevators in all...which feels like too much.

B)
Good: Cosmetically still feels substantial and looks good IMHO. More importantly it accommodates for movement from side to side and around the front (I am a big fan of less restriction on movement). It might fit a helicopter landing pad on top.

Bad: It is not symmetrical side to side

C)
Good: Offers lots of movement around the roofs. It offers symmetrical placement

Bad: Feels a bit less realistic with the shallow tower. Helicopter pad will not fit on top.

I am currently leaning towards Option C.

3 WIP options:


One general complication is the use of elevators and the side buildings. Perhaps I just have elevators go up the main middle building and use ladders to move up and down to the side roofs.

Regarding doors to upper roofs. I see three approaches:

1) put doors out onto roofs to support a "suggested" build where the doors make sense. This would greatly limit building placement.

2) restrict door placement to first floors. I am thinking a single side door on each secondary building (not the main middle one). This would create flexibility in layout and the use of stairs. Currently I favor this idea.

3) have doors as separate parts that get placed via magnets or other vodoo. To be honest I like this conceptually, but doesn't feel easy to implement. I want to balance the qty of parts and flexibility. I like 4 buildings that can be combined in many ways...but too many small parts starts to feel like a pain to produce.


Generally I like the direction this is going but I do have some obstacles to overcome.

Any other feedback before I plow ahead?

And thanks for listening, it is helpful to get ones ideas out The exercise of talking this out helps me better understand what I want to do. But I am very much interested in any feedback others might have.
It may not fit on a single sheet like you plan but if it does...how about option D...

Add one more row of hexes to the main building toward the back and then make option c one more row of hexes deep as well.

C is my favorite for symmetry and movement but I can see the con of it being narrow that's why I offered up a possible D solution which keeps the symmetry and movement and eliminates the narrow building look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #138  
Old June 20th, 2016, 03:23 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post

It may not fit on a single sheet like you plan but if it does...how about option D...

Add one more row of hexes to the main building toward the back and then make option c one more row of hexes deep as well.

C is my favorite for symmetry and movement but I can see the con of it being narrow that's why I offered up a possible D solution which keeps the symmetry and movement and eliminates the narrow building look.
Yeah, that is an option. I just really want to keep it to working on a single sheet of paper per side. Doing that would result in 3 double paper sides (Top and sides of main building).

Do you think option C looks silly? The narrow tower part is 4.25" deep and 7" wide. Perhaps it isn't as tiny as it sounds. In total, with all the parts in place, this building would be 20.5" wide, 10.25" deep and 15.75" tall. That's actually pretty big. So I do hesitate the make the main building even larger.

Another option is to have the main building built out of 2 buildings that are put back to back to make the structure I have here. This would let me go deeper, but would mean people have to build a 5th building. The up side is that this would make it even more flexible. But I do think this is just too.
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  #139  
Old June 20th, 2016, 04:05 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post

It may not fit on a single sheet like you plan but if it does...how about option D...

Add one more row of hexes to the main building toward the back and then make option c one more row of hexes deep as well.

C is my favorite for symmetry and movement but I can see the con of it being narrow that's why I offered up a possible D solution which keeps the symmetry and movement and eliminates the narrow building look.
Yeah, that is an option. I just really want to keep it to working on a single sheet of paper per side. Doing that would result in 3 double paper sides (Top and sides of main building).

Do you think option C looks silly? The narrow tower part is 4.25" deep and 7" wide. Perhaps it isn't as tiny as it sounds. In total, with all the parts in place, this building would be 20.5" wide, 10.25" deep and 15.75" tall. That's actually pretty big. So I do hesitate the make the main building even larger.

Another option is to have the main building built out of 2 buildings that are put back to back to make the structure I have here. This would let me go deeper, but would mean people have to build a 5th building. The up side is that this would make it even more flexible. But I do think this is just too.
Personally I don't have an issue with C as is. I just know you did and I could see the reason if someone did. If C was deeper however you could make two towers and have an option of dueling towers on the side buildings with the center building being the lower. That option look a lot like the University Housing Units I've designed in the real world lately that have two residential towers with a common Community Building in the center. That gives you more flex with your modules...Single tower Hospital building or a double tower Residential complex...all with the same pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #140  
Old June 20th, 2016, 04:13 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post

It may not fit on a single sheet like you plan but if it does...how about option D...

Add one more row of hexes to the main building toward the back and then make option c one more row of hexes deep as well.

C is my favorite for symmetry and movement but I can see the con of it being narrow that's why I offered up a possible D solution which keeps the symmetry and movement and eliminates the narrow building look.
Yeah, that is an option. I just really want to keep it to working on a single sheet of paper per side. Doing that would result in 3 double paper sides (Top and sides of main building).

Do you think option C looks silly? The narrow tower part is 4.25" deep and 7" wide. Perhaps it isn't as tiny as it sounds. In total, with all the parts in place, this building would be 20.5" wide, 10.25" deep and 15.75" tall. That's actually pretty big. So I do hesitate the make the main building even larger.

Another option is to have the main building built out of 2 buildings that are put back to back to make the structure I have here. This would let me go deeper, but would mean people have to build a 5th building. The up side is that this would make it even more flexible. But I do think this is just too.
Personally I don't have an issue with C as is. I just know you did and I could see the reason if someone did. If C was deeper however you could make two towers and have an option of dueling towers on the side buildings with the center building being the lower. That option look a lot like the University Housing Units I've designed in the real world lately that have two residential towers with a common Community Building in the center. That gives you more flex with your modules...Single tower Hospital building or a double tower Residential complex...all with the same pieces.
Oh I like that, dueling towers! It seems to me that one could make as many or as few of these parts as they want. One could just make the main building and be done. It's all a matter of the scale you want.

It just occurred to me I could extend the tower by a half hex on front and back. This would make lots of half hex spaces but might make it "feel" better. I suppose the reality is if someone doesn't like the tower they just won't build it.

And this seems obvious now, but if I did just add a whole hex to the back of the tower I could have the back of the tower and the main building flush with each other (similar to the Daily Planet design).

Thanks for taking the time to look at it and think about it and I think I have some good ideas / options I just needed to talk it out!
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  #141  
Old June 20th, 2016, 04:32 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Just as a quick design note, apply it if you feel it's necessary.

I always made sure the four corners of any building contained a full hex, never a half hex. Two reasons; one the building fits on the pattern of hexes better; but two, and perhaps more importantly, a figure can stand on any of the four corners without any penalty. Especially a figure with a ranged ability. That way figures can always cover two sides of any building. Don't know if you want to go that deep into terrain design specifics but it was always a consideration for me. Figures really should be allowed to stand on the corners of rooftops without any minuses.

My Custom Terrain Thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...read.php?t=448
My tribute site to TFT/Melee & Wizards: http://www.meleewizards.com/
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  #142  
Old June 20th, 2016, 05:03 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grishnakh View Post
Just as a quick design note, apply it if you feel it's necessary.

I always made sure the four corners of any building contained a full hex, never a half hex. Two reasons; one the building fits on the pattern of hexes better; but two, and perhaps more importantly, a figure can stand on any of the four corners without any penalty. Especially a figure with a ranged ability. That way figures can always cover two sides of any building. Don't know if you want to go that deep into terrain design specifics but it was always a consideration for me. Figures really should be allowed to stand on the corners of rooftops without any minuses.
Yeah, that is a really good point. Man, designing square buildings on top of a hex based grid is not easy!

Requiring full hexes at the corners restricts one to buildings with an odd number of hexes in depth. If you want space to move around things get big fast!

Thanks for the input Grish, much appreciated.

I need to stew on this before moving forward. I really want to stick to single 8.5x11 sheets for this building set so I will most likely have to compromise on something.
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  #143  
Old June 20th, 2016, 05:33 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grishnakh View Post
Just as a quick design note, apply it if you feel it's necessary.

I always made sure the four corners of any building contained a full hex, never a half hex. Two reasons; one the building fits on the pattern of hexes better; but two, and perhaps more importantly, a figure can stand on any of the four corners without any penalty. Especially a figure with a ranged ability. That way figures can always cover two sides of any building. Don't know if you want to go that deep into terrain design specifics but it was always a consideration for me. Figures really should be allowed to stand on the corners of rooftops without any minuses.
Yeah, that is a really good point. Man, designing square buildings on top of a hex based grid is not easy!
It wasn't easy, that's for sure. Kinda like creating a square peg to fit into a round hole.

But once I worked out the size, rules and overall design system things become much easier. That is until you try to do a design that's more complicated! Which is what you're trying to do.

By the way, gamers that use squares really have it easy! Of course , their games aren't as good IMHO.

As a side note the first building I designed and built had two full hexes in the front corners, and two half hexes in the back corners. It was immediately apparent that wasn't good when we placed it on the battlefield. I still have the building, I wasn't going to unassembled it, and I still use it. I just usually place it in the middle between two slightly longer buildings. That gets rid of the corner problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
Requiring full hexes at the corners restricts one to buildings with an odd number of hexes in depth. If you want space to move around things get big fast!
But that's a good thing. To keep these in scale they're going to be big! Heck, some of what I did are skyscrapers! Go big or go home right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
Thanks for the input Grish, much appreciated.
Thanks, I'm glad you appreciate the amount of work that went into these things!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
I need to stew on this before moving forward. I really want to stick to single 8.5x11 sheets for this building set so I will most likely have to compromise on something.
Yep, important consideration. And one that somewhat dictated the size of my buildings. It seems a lot of discussion went around without including me about building height. One of the main things that drove my decision to make a single story be 6 levels high was how many floors one could fit on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper. That and it just scales out to that number of levels.

Just for discussion, and for you knowledge, my thinking was simple: The warehouse ruin that came with the Marvel set is something like 9 levels high? But that's OK. It's a warehouse. The ceilings should be higher. If I were ever to do a warehouse I'd match it to that official piece. But civilian structures should be shorter, and again, to scale makes them 6 high. My doors, if you haven't noticed, are 5 levels high. Just look at the door in your room at home and you'll see how that works out. It's very logical. Anyway, just for your information.

Really enjoying what you are doing with the hospital! Can't wait to see it finalized and gamed on. Perhaps Hulk can send a few characters to the hospital right?!

My Custom Terrain Thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...read.php?t=448
My tribute site to TFT/Melee & Wizards: http://www.meleewizards.com/
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  #144  
Old June 20th, 2016, 05:34 PM
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Re: McMeeple's Custom Building Terrain: 3 Part Mechanic Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmeeple View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grishnakh View Post
Just as a quick design note, apply it if you feel it's necessary.

I always made sure the four corners of any building contained a full hex, never a half hex. Two reasons; one the building fits on the pattern of hexes better; but two, and perhaps more importantly, a figure can stand on any of the four corners without any penalty. Especially a figure with a ranged ability. That way figures can always cover two sides of any building. Don't know if you want to go that deep into terrain design specifics but it was always a consideration for me. Figures really should be allowed to stand on the corners of rooftops without any minuses.
Yeah, that is a really good point. Man, designing square buildings on top of a hex based grid is not easy!

Requiring full hexes at the corners restricts one to buildings with an odd number of hexes in depth. If you want space to move around things get big fast!

Thanks for the input Grish, much appreciated.

I need to stew on this before moving forward. I really want to stick to single 8.5x11 sheets for this building set so I will most likely have to compromise on something.
Well pushing the tower back shifts the hexes and fixes the half hexes on the corners! Its hard to remember that moving a building back a hex changes the roof configuration hex wise.

Here it is moved back:


This actually makes a nice large space in front of the tower to duke it out. I like that over a skinny row of hexes in front and back.

I think this looks like the winner in my book. It satisfies everything:
- space to move around
- fits on 8.5x11 paper
- no corner half hexes
- extremely modular
- build as much or as little as you want approach

Here are some variations with two towers as @japes mentioned:

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