Evolution vs Creation, Youtube series

[meatcircus]

Originally Posted by Bannister

The first rule of evolution vs creation fight club is that you don't talk about evolution vs creation fight club!
The second rule of evolution vs creation fight club is that YOU DO NOT TALK about evolution vs creation fight club...........

Nice!
You know the dude that wrote Fight Club is gay? Chuck Palahniuk .My pastor went to High School with him.

Anyway... any takers to the topic who don't want to flame or fight?

Prolly not, wheres the fun in that =)

[Gulp]

I'm not going to get involved in this thread anymore than posting this because I don't want to get involved in the inevitable religious debate that this topic inspires.

I'm a regular reader of Scientific American. They recently released a two hour discussion with some guy that put out a movie called Expelled, which is an anti-evolution movie. The guy pretty much eventually agrees with the Sci-Am editors that his movie is extremely misleading with lots of its 'facts'. It was brave of the guy to go directly to the science community and play the movie for them in their office. He seems like a nice guy, but man, they ripped his movie apart.

According to RottenTomatoes.com the movie got a 9% approval rating, which means it's almost as good as Catwoman. And it says this:

Consensus: A cynical political stunt in the guise of a documentary. Full of patronizing, poorly structured arguments, Expelled is a cynical political stunt in the guise of a documentary.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Gulp

I'm not going to get involved in this thread anymore than posting this because I don't want to get involved in the inevitable religious debate that this topic inspires.

I'm a regular reader of Scientific American. They recently released a two hour discussion with some guy that put out a movie called Expelled, which is an anti-evolution movie. The guy pretty much eventually agrees with the Sci-Am editors that his movie is extremely misleading with lots of its 'facts'. It was brave of the guy to go directly to the science community and play the movie for them in their office. He seems like a nice guy, but man, they ripped his movie apart.

According to RottenTomatoes.com the movie got a 9% approval rating, which means it's almost as good as Catwoman. And it says this:

Consensus: A cynical political stunt in the guise of a documentary. Full of patronizing, poorly structured arguments, Expelled is a cynical political stunt in the guise of a documentary.

You know... I give Chillidog credit for at least having watched the video he brings up for discussion. Frankly, I also give him credit for trying to expand his understanding of the creation/evolution debate. This kind of drive-by, "I don't want to talk about it but I can't help but toss my opinion in" stuff bugs the heck out of me from any side of an argument.

~Aldin, who ALSO hasn't seen expelled

[Gulp]

Originally Posted by Aldin

You know... I give Chillidog credit for at least having watched the video he brings up for discussion. Frankly, I also give him credit for trying to expand his understanding of the creation/evolution debate. This kind of drive-by, "I don't want to talk about it but I can't help but toss my opinion in" stuff bugs the heck out of me from any side of an argument.

~Aldin, who ALSO hasn't seen expelled

Fair point, Aldin. I guess I was trying to find a way to contribute information without getting myself entrenched. The reviews of Expelled are astonishingly ripping across the spectrum of reviewers from conservative to liberal publications, not just because of its topic, but because it pretty much lies worse than a Michael Moore film. The Anti-Defamation League denounced it for misplacing the blame for the Holocaust, putting it on Darwin instead of Hitler.

[ChilliDog]

When you mentioned the title I knew it sounded familiar. I remember hearing people talking about the trailers but I didn't realize that it was out now. Someone posted a trailer on another site that contained a piece about the holocaust and people were pretty angry about it on the site.

I'm almost considering seeing this movie, it's playing just down the road.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

I heard they tricked Richard Dawkins into being interviewed for Expelled.

[Gulp]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

I heard they tricked Richard Dawkins into being interviewed for Expelled.

They told him it was for a movie called Crossroads (which is also the title of a Britney Spears movie, btw). They already had the domain registered for Expelled. If they had said, 'It's called Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed,' then Dawkins would know what they were up to and he wouldn't have participated. Then they edited the interview to make him sound stupid.

[Aldin]

Not to belabor the point, but Gulp - does this mean you have now seen the movie? Or are you (with great irony for those who have watched the initial youtube vid Chillidog posted) without reviewing the evidence for yourself, making this proclamation about the contents of Expelled?

~Aldin, who thinks Ironman is the movie we should all be discussing

[Elstree]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Not to belabor the point, but Gulp - does this mean you have now seen the movie? Or are you (with great irony for those who have watched the initial youtube vid Chillidog posted) without reviewing the evidence for yourself, making this proclamation about the contents of Expelled?

The Scientific American reviews of Expelled are available here.

The National Center for Science Education's documentation of the movie's many, many inaccuracies (as well as the deceptive practices of the movie makers) are available here.

[Gulp]

No, I have not seen the movie, and I will not. I've read detailed reviews.

You've illuminated the problem the scientific community has with Expelled by making the argument that I should review the evidence for myself before coming to a conclusion. Expelled says that 'Big Science' isn't willing to review the intelligent design side's evidence. They have reviewed it, and it's not evidence of anything. Many people in the field of science have reviewed the film, and they all say that the movie isn't just bad, it's shameless political propaganda that misleads the audience by outright lying. After receiving enough information from credible sources, I've decided that the best thing I can do is to boycott it.

Expelled for real:
Christine Comer was the Director of Science for the Texas Education Agency for nine years, until she was forced to resign for failing to remain neutral on creationism.

You're welcome to go enjoy it.

[Aldin]

Elstree & Gulp,

I believe that I'm doing a poor job of communicating my amusement and it is coming across as attacking. Chillidog started this thread with the goal of having people watch the video to which he linked and comment upon some of the things in that video. I watched that video and commented - mostly trying to address the appearance of hypocrisy and to wonder why a nonreligious person would be interested in the creation/evolution debate.

A major point of contention within the video that this thread is about is that (wait for it) people who believe in evolution only do so on the strength of listening to what scientists say rather than evaluating the evidence themselves. In that context I thought Gulp tossing out someone else's review of a movie no one on the thread had mentioned was extremely amusing. At the same time, it kinda seemed like dumping on whatever chance Chillidog might have had to keep the thread neutralish. Finally, it really bugs me when people who haven't seen movies slam them - period.

Gulp conceded the point and the thread continued until he said "they edited the interview to make him sound stupid". I cannot for the life of me imagine how he could possibly KNOW this without having seen the movie... while at the same time I'm still absurdly amused at how these comments are trusted as true without independent verification - just as Chillidog's video claims happens.

The real issue here shouldn't have anything to do with a movie none of us have seen - we have no basis for arguing it's merits. You'll notice I have neither supported nor denigrated the movie - only Gulp's commentary on the movie. The one thing I have spoken on with authority is my opinion on the video Chillidog asked the readers of this thread to watch. Have either of you done so? Were you to watch it, I hope you will see why such a seemingly small thing is striking me in such an absurdly amusing and yet somewhat exasperating way.

~Aldin, explanatorily

[soberman]

Originally Posted by Elstree

The Scientific American reviews of Expelled are available here.

The National Center for Science Education's documentation of the movie's many, many inaccuracies (as well as the deceptive practices of the movie makers) are available here.

With all due respect, Elstree, this does not impress me. I could go to the Jesus Seminar and get bad reviews of the gospels too. You could pick up National Review and get the inside score of the inaccuracies of a Michael Moore documentary. We could go to any source that has a clear position they wish to promote, and get a bad review of anything this is in disagreement with it.

Where are the conservative reviews that trash the film? I've actually heard good things on talk radio. Plus, if Ben Stein interviews Dawkins and he presents his unguarded comments without editing or embellishment- isn't there a grain of truth to be found there? Wouldn't it at least be interesting to see? The purpose of a bad review is to make certain that you do not see the film, moreso with films of this nature. But wouldn't we all be expanding our views if we exposed ourselves to ideas that went beyond our own myopic worldview? I watched "Bowling For Columbine" even though I knew it was a farce, that the reasons for school shootings are the cradle-to-grave mentality of big pharmaceuticals giving anti-depressants and other psycho-active substances out to children as if brain chemistry is the same for every person, and all life's problems can be solved with a pill. I watched it, was annoyed by the sheer stupidity of it, but it was, at the least, educational and somewhat interesting and not a total waste of my time.

Bottom line- don't diss Ben Stein. He's the man! Seriously, anyone living in Hollywood who goes against the status quo deserves respect.

You guys should check out, if it is still in print, a book called When Science Meets Religion by another emeritus, Prof. Ian G. Barbour.
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