Sir Heroscape's customs

[Sir Heroscape]

Ideas for the Beakface Archer:

Did a little research on Archers...

The main role of the medieval archers was to start the action and advance in front of the main army. This is what happened during the famous Battle of the Hastings. The skirmish formation was when crossbowmen were involved in aggressive skirmishing ahead of the main army. Emphasis added.

So maybe, they need to be an advance type unit with an ability like...

SKIRMISH
After attacking with a Beakface Archer, you may reveal an X Order Marker on this Army Card and attack with each Beakface Archer that did not attack this turn.

EDIT: actually that's not all that good. In order to get lots of attacks with them you'd have to get attacks from Sneaks to flock them in and then get them all into position...so they wouldn't really be the advance force...ugh...this is hard haha

[caps]

So right now you have 6move, 6range, 2attack, 3defense, and improved flocking.

I would go for 6move, 2defense, evasive 3, glide, and improved flocking that moves 6 Raptorians. I think this makes an interesting unit. Why 6? Because you could already move a net of 4 with Flocking on the Sneaks, and you're potentially sacrificing an attack to use the archer, so if it is truly improved flocking you should get more bonus movement than just a total of 5 units. (EDIT: this also fits with the advanced scout thing, since you move the archers up early to be able to move lots of Raptorians when they attack).

The remaining question is how you implement the range. I think either 7range and 2attack or 5range and 3attack is the way to go. The former emphasizes his anti-range component and the latter makes him more approachable by enemy melee forces but more beefy at hitting them. A single attack of 2 or 3 won't typically be worth an OM mid-game, but that single attack along with moving 6 Raptorians could be. (EDIT: I think I lean strongly towards 7range and 2attack. The sneaks already get attacks of 3, and that bow doesn't look that powerful, necessarily. But the ability to hit stuff that is further away from the Sneak screen sounds really good)

I think you could bundle the above up for 20 points.

--

Your other two Raptorians are neat but they don't really feel like Raptorians.


EDIT: I would look for Evasive, Glide, or a power that works similar to those. Note how the Warwitch has "Flutter" which gives her a different twist on the feel of those first two powers. For the first card, I don't think Raptorian Resilience is a great fit for the faction. An attack bonus feels more fitting for their aggressive nature. However, I would also consider an alternative like Count Raymond's Maneuver 9; maybe Raptorian Maneuver 7/8? Maybe give it a different name and explicitly state it also applies to him? There are other ways to do the melee + range weapon thing, but I like what you did with Hand Crossbow. It would depend on the other powers on the card, but I can't help but think that Raptorian Disengage might look a little different. Maybe in response to a ranged attack they can move 1-2 spaces and avoid leaving engagement attacks?


For the second one, I'm not sure that you need a two-weapon attack special power. It depends on what else you end up putting on the card. I would look for something that makes him feel more like a Raptorian than Charging Assault. You could do Evasive (maybe even going up to 4?), a Flutter-like power, Disengage, Glide, or one of the ideas I proposed for the Leader dude.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

So right now you have 6move, 6range, 2attack, 3defense, and improved flocking.

I would go for 6move, 2defense, evasive 3, glide, and improved flocking that moves 6 Raptorians. I think this makes an interesting unit. Why 6? Because you could already move a net of 4 with Flocking on the Sneaks, and you're potentially sacrificing an attack to use the archer, so if it is truly improved flocking you should get more bonus movement than just a total of 5 units. (EDIT: this also fits with the advanced scout thing, since you move the archers up early to be able to move lots of Raptorians when they attack).

The remaining question is how you implement the range. I think either 7range and 2attack or 5range and 3attack is the way to go. The former emphasizes his anti-range component and the latter makes him more approachable by enemy melee forces but more beefy at hitting them. A single attack of 2 or 3 won't typically be worth an OM mid-game, but that single attack along with moving 6 Raptorians could be. (EDIT: I think I lean strongly towards 7range and 2attack. The sneaks already get attacks of 3, and that bow doesn't look that powerful, necessarily. But the ability to hit stuff that is further away from the Sneak screen sounds really good)

I think you could bundle the above up for 20 points.

--

Your other two Raptorians are neat but they don't really feel like Raptorians.


EDIT: I would look for Evasive, Glide, or a power that works similar to those. Note how the Warwitch has "Flutter" which gives her a different twist on the feel of those first two powers. For the first card, I don't think Raptorian Resilience is a great fit for the faction. An attack bonus feels more fitting for their aggressive nature. However, I would also consider an alternative like Count Raymond's Maneuver 9; maybe Raptorian Maneuver 7/8? Maybe give it a different name and explicitly state it also applies to him? There are other ways to do the melee + range weapon thing, but I like what you did with Hand Crossbow. It would depend on the other powers on the card, but I can't help but think that Raptorian Disengage might look a little different. Maybe in response to a ranged attack they can move 1-2 spaces and avoid leaving engagement attacks?


For the second one, I'm not sure that you need a two-weapon attack special power. It depends on what else you end up putting on the card. I would look for something that makes him feel more like a Raptorian than Charging Assault. You could do Evasive (maybe even going up to 4?), a Flutter-like power, Disengage, Glide, or one of the ideas I proposed for the Leader dude.

Those are some REALLY good ideas and feedback, I really appreciate it. I like where this discussion is going. Gimme a second to process this and I'll try and mock up a summary with some powers.

[caps]

The other reason to go with 7 range (or you could maybe push it and go to 8 range) and the 2 attack is it makes it even easier for the archer to trigger Improved Flocking earlier in the game.

If you want to go heavy on that angle, I would consider the Scout class. There are neat synergies there that I *think* don't affect the balance of the unit at all. Sure, you could drop the Venoc Warlord in your army for 8 move beakface archers, but you're trading 8 Sneaks out to do it. He does give you a heavy hitter that's decent in cleanup. But you might miss those 8 sneaks quite a bit, and the extra 2 move on a small fraction of your army is not *that* valuable. Venoc Warlord + a whole barrel of beakface archers is an army that's fun to play but probably really terrible.

[Sir Heroscape]

Alright, here's a stab at some new powers...

ARCHER

NAME = BEAKFACE ARCHER

SPECIES = RAPTORIAN
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = SCOUT
PERSONALITY = DISCIPLINED
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/4

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 7
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 20

TARGET POINT: Head
GRAY AREAS: Weapons

IMPROVED FLOCKING
After taking a turn with a Beakface Archer, if it attacked an opponent's figure, you may move up to 6 Raptorians you control that did not move or attack this turn up to 6 spaces each.

EVASIVE 3
When a Beakface Archer rolls defense dice against an attacking figure who is not adjacent, add 3 defense dice to the defending Archer.

GLIDE
Beakface Archers never roll for falling damage.

CHIEFTAN

NAME = QUORIK CHIEFTAN

SPECIES = RAPTORIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEADER
PERSONALITY = TRICKY
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/4

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 75

TARGET POINT: Head
GRAY AREAS: Weapons

RAPTORIAN AGGRESSION
When revealing a numbered order marker on Quorik Chieftan's Army Card, you may also reveal an "X" order marker on Quorik Chieftan's Army Card to activate Raptorian Aggression for the duration of the round. While Raptorian Aggression is active, Quorik Chieftan and any friendly Raptorian figures adjacent to Quorik Chieftan add an additional attack die.

JUMP BACK
When Quorik Chieftan is targeted by an attack from an opponent's adjacent figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 9 or higher, Quorik Chieftan may immediately move up to 1 space and does not take any leaving engagement attacks. Quorik Chieftan can Jump Back only if he ends his move not adjacent to any enemy figures.

[Sir Heroscape]

[duplicate]

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

What about the above "passive-type" ability? It has the unique movement you mentioned Raptorians tend to have, but also helps beyond the first round. I expect the above isn't a perfect power fit, but I think it has the bare bones of a movement ability that could be relevant during the whole game.

Mostly it's just strange. Why does just having Archers on the field give other Raptorians movements? And it has the problem you mentioned of the Archers being just as valuable sitting in the start zone.

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

What I mean by that is, would a common archer unit really have commander-type abilities to help with order marker management or movement abilities? I think for the most part, not. This unit would really probably be more of a support unit you could rely on to help clear the board a bit in order to free up your Sneaks to advance. Problem is, that's an entirely different direction than I was going so I'm a little bit at a loss as to where to start.

The Sneaks don't want someone to clear the board for them, they're a first-strike unit. And a single attack of 2 isn't going to clear much of anything anyway.

You're right to question whether or not you're putting too much weight on a common archer. Making them commanders doesn't really fit. Making them reliable damage-dealers doesn't really fit either, imo. Give them a job to do, a roll to play, and focus the design on that. I like the Improved Flocking that moves a bunch of Raptorians because it fits in a scout-like role.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Ok, I guess, but note that being different is a disadvantage, not an advantage.

And that quote sums up exactly why I don't really care about VC anymore.

[Leaf_It]

The Raptorians have an intersting naming pattern. The first name appears to be a class title, and the second describes what they do. The Beakface seems to be the lower ranking soldiers. The Clawfoot are higher ranking, probably because they can fly, and have big claws on their feet. The Quorik is clearly for a higher class, but what specifically places a Raptorian in the Quorik class? Using the Warwitch as the only approved example, I feel like Quorik is for Raptorians that have a magic affinity. For this reason, I don't feel like Quorik works here, or on the Razerbeak design. Now I like Razerbeak, I feel like Razerbeak makes sense as a class title for a higher ranking soldier. Both of your Raptorian heros, at least in my opinion, would better follow the established naming convention, if Razerbeak was the first part of their names. The second part of the naming convention always describes what they do. The Sneaks sneak around quickly, avoiding fire, and striking quickly. The Warwitch is a battle m̶a̶g̶e̶ witch that flies around, attacking with magic. The interceptors fly over forces, and grab them, disrupting formations, and such. Your Raptorian heros could use a last name that matches this naming convention. The Armored figure could perhaps be called a Blademaster, or Bladedancer since he has two swords like the other Bladedancers we have so far, or maybe something simpler like Champion. The Hand crossbow figure you have here, looks like a swashbuckler, or a sailor. Instead of Chieftain, what about Buccaneer, Corsair, or just Captain since you're going for a leader type?

Now in regards to design.

I like where you have the Archer. The improved Flocking changes are nice, and they compensate the lack of attack power with more board control. Range 6 or 7 doesn't matter too much to me. Just having a range unit other than the Warwitch will be nice.

I think the Razerbeak, aside from naming conventions mentioned above, is in a good place. The Raptorian faction could use a single target can opener, to get past high defense heros.

The Chieftain, again other than the naming conventions, seems to be going to a cheerleader role. Your latest design is interesting, because you can move them with Flocking to get the bonus set up, and if he gets attacked, then jump back helps him survive better than most other cheerleaders. You'd almost always want to use order marker 1 on him to take advantage of the buff. Personally I'd like to see his sword represented better. In the old iteration, his crossbow was 4 attack dice, which didn't make any sense, because his sword was only rolling 3. I like his crossbow dealing 3 as it does in the latest version, but now it doesn't feel like the sword is present. I'd like something like Agent Carr's Sword of Reckoning, or Tandros Kreel's +2 Broadsword, that adds a bonus to adjacent attacks. Call it +1 Sabre slash, or something like that.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

And that quote sums up exactly why I don't really care about VC anymore.

I feel that the point here wasn't that things should not be different, but that designs within a faction should feel like they belong in that faction. Being too different from a faction is a disadvantage, because they won't play well together, and they won't feel like they are part of the same faction.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Just some quick thoughts here:

• What if you had Improved Flocking only move your Raptorians 4 spaces? That further distances it from the original version that's on the Sneaks, and keeps it from stepping on any toes there. Besides that, moving 6 figures during a turn seems pretty powerful, but when you combine it with only 1 attack per turn it doesn't sound too bad. Reminds me a lot of the Teeth of Makwa.

• I think your Chieftain is a pretty good idea. I really like the adjacent attack aura; I also think giving him a disengage aura of some type works well. I imagine him working as a type of hub: He pumps up your sneaks and archers when they're around him and then lets them get away easy, giving them a hit and run feel. Meanwhile, he would be fairly squishy, but not too squishy. I might forgo a defensive power for him and just give him glide, and then maybe 6 life/3 defense, a Raptorian MDG kind of...

• Speaking of MDG, I really liked Caps's idea of making the archers' class Scout. Synergy with the Venoc Warlord would be pretty HeroScape-y. Further, maybe your Chieftain could be a... Warlord? Another Einar Warlord for the Sacred Band might be kinda cool.

[Sir Heroscape]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, as-is I'm actually pretty happy with the above power ideas/changes. I really like the leader abilities a lot more and the Archer does seem to be coming together. You have an interesting point for allowing all Raptorians to move, but with how cheap they are you can fit quite a few in an army and I don't know that I'd like to give THAT much power to a unit. But maybe, you do have a point it makes them more unique.

[Sir Heroscape]

Here are the Archer and Chieftan powers on a card for a nice visual. Not set in stone by any means, but sometimes it's easier to see the design with a card for me.