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  #37  
Old August 15th, 2014, 12:54 AM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

Finally got time to post in here... I've messed around with the VS file a couple times trying to make it aesthetically better (and on making it fit the available tiles), but tonight I was working on some gameplay things and I came up with this:

Swamps of Dagobah 2.0? - VS file
1 RotV, 1 SotM, 2 RttFF, 1 TJ


5 major changes:
-Aesthetically symmetrical
-Moved a bunch of hexes (can't even list everything) and used Marro Hive base for 6-hex swamp
-Pulled the swamp apart a hex so that I could fit all three Jungle trees evenly in the swamp area
-Brought all height near swamp back away a space
-Added height to the outsides and moved the 4-hex trees inward
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  #38  
Old August 15th, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

From my Lando test:

Quote:
Map = Swamps of Dagobah


2 random glyphs chosen and placed face down from this glyph pool: Lodin, Dagmar, Ivor, Valda, Crevcor, Gerda, Wannok, Thorian, Astrid.

Team A: Lando (I screwed up and had Lando at 100 instead of 120), AZ, 4x Tusken Raiders, Greedo (520)
Team B: Nilfheim, Raelin 1.0, 3x 4th Massachusetts, Drow Chainfighter (500)

Remaining: Unused Greedo, Lando at 1/4, AZ at 3/5, 5x TRs.

Spoiler Alert!



Test 1 Summary: Lando played this one well, making him overpowered IMO. First the Tuskens set up a screen for Lando by engaging Nilfheim, then Lando was able to cancel Nilf's attack 3 times. I'm thinking that Con Man should only be allowed once per game for gameplay reasons as well as theme: after being conned by Lando once, why would the same army trust him again the very next round? Canceling one turn per round by simply putting an X on him is not fun for the opponent. The power also places a crosshairs right on Lando's chest, so a one time use Con power would reduce that effect.

Map summary: There are a few things that need work on this map. First, the path to the enemy is difficult for melee vs range matchups. The melee attackers get bottlenecked into the narrow left hand or right hand side of the pond. This allows them to keep some high ground and stay near the Jungle trees, but pathing is difficult. The other option is for the melee army to give height advantage to the opponent and charge through the swamp; also not a great option. Meanwhile, the ranged army simply unloads their SZ onto the nearby height next to the pond and waits (then fires). This concentrates all of the action into one corner of the map at the bottleneck, although in my test this was exacerbated by the army I used (Tuskens and AZ, who need to cluster up).

The other problem is the glyph location. The glyph locations have too much cover behind the large tree. The only way to attack the glyph holder is to make a long and dangerous land assault that takes you through the bottleneck and somewhat near the enemy's SZ in order to get around the big tree. Since I was moving AZ and Tuskens up through that same bottleneck, it would have been impossible for the other side to dislodge the Tuskens from the Astrid glyph. Maybe I should have used less powerful glyphs that weren't such gamechangers. The glyphs should be more open so that the glyhp holder can be assaulted, and not just a race out of the SZ.

I like some of the changes HS made. Lowering the height around the pond makes it a bit easier to get out of the pond, which makes crossing the pond more palatable. Additionally, HS's version removes the bottleneck at either side of the map, making it so you pretty much have to cross the pond anyway, but now it's just a swampy region rather than a "kill the dummy down in that pwnd" pond.
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  #39  
Old August 15th, 2014, 04:52 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

Yeah, HS2010's version is growing on me. I think in that version you could do more with the swamp creature special rule as moving onto a swamp water hex is much more likely.
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  #40  
Old August 15th, 2014, 05:00 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

Doh. I didn't review the discussion; I just grabbed the VS in the OP and built it...
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  #41  
Old August 15th, 2014, 05:45 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

All your talk about the glyphs, Porkins, made me realize I didn't add any to the map...



Also, Swamp Creature/Special Rules could be like:

Quote:
SWAMP CREATURE
Destructible Object

LARGE ?

Life 2
Defense 1

DEPTH OF THE SWAMP (new name)
Swamp Creatures do not start the game on the battlefield. When a small or medium figure moves onto or ends its movement on a Swamp Water space, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a[n] X or higher, remove that figure, place it on this card, and place a Swamp Creature on that figure's previously occupied space. Up to a maximum of 2 figures may be on this card at once. You may only roll the 20-sided die for Depth of the Swamp once per turn for each figure. At the end of the round, place any figures on this card adjacent to the Swamp Creature. After placing the figures, each of those figures receives one wound, and remove the Swamp Creature from the battlefield and place it on this card. If a Swamp Creature would receive enough wounds to be destroyed, place all figures on this card adjacent to that Swamp Creature, and then destroy that Swamp Creature.

SWAMP AGILITY (new name)
If a Swamp Creature would receive at least one wound, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a[n] X or higher, ignore any wounds and move that Swamp Creature up to 4 spaces. When moving with Swamp Agility, a Swamp Creature does not take any leaving engagement attacks, may move through all figures, and must end its turn on a Swamp Water space.
Mini: Any of these pretty much

Special Rules: Start the game with 3 Swamp Creatures. Swamp Creatures are not controlled by any figure. When Swamp Creatures are attacked, the opponent of the attacking figure temporarily controls that Swamp Creature.
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  #42  
Old August 15th, 2014, 07:04 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

I toyed around with HS' revision and came up with this.

VS file

I think it looks more like a swamp in this manner and I do like having the islands out in the middle.
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  #43  
Old August 16th, 2014, 08:14 AM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

I think I'd move the glyphs into the center of those 7 hexers, otherwise the figure on the glyph gets high ground attacks on 4 out of 6 adj. hexes.
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  #44  
Old August 16th, 2014, 08:22 AM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
I toyed around with HS' revision and came up with this.

VS file

I think it looks more like a swamp in this manner and I do like having the islands out in the middle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I think I'd move the glyphs into the center of those 7 hexers, otherwise the figure on the glyph gets high ground attacks on 4 out of 6 adj. hexes.


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  #45  
Old August 16th, 2014, 12:04 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I think I'd move the glyphs into the center of those 7 hexers, otherwise the figure on the glyph gets high ground attacks on 4 out of 6 adj. hexes.
4? I only get 2, unless you're combining the glyphs together for this purpose. Personally, I don't see the problem with there being up to 2 adjacent high ground attacks per glyph.
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  #46  
Old August 16th, 2014, 12:28 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

I think he's referring to the 4 swamp water hexes adjacent to the glyphs. A figure on the glyph would have height on those 4 spots. Move them to the middle of the 7-hex tiles, then adjacent figures will be on the same level.


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  #47  
Old August 16th, 2014, 12:46 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
I toyed around with HS' revision and came up with this.

VS file

I think it looks more like a swamp in this manner and I do like having the islands out in the middle.
I like the islands in the middle. Having to go through swamp will definitely allow us to make a Swamp Creature rule of some sort...

I see a couple problems, though. First off, according to the rulebook, the Bush pieces on the far sides are place incorrectly, as their bases must touch at least two other hexes (those touch none).

Secondly, a kind of pet-peeve of mine even though I don't have a Jungle; spread them out and get the 6-hex defense bonus out of all of them without overlap (unless they're on a border). Beyond getting the most out of the Jungle, from previous tournament experience, I recall that it can be hard to move/place double space figures (especially large based ones) in between the plants because some of the plant's leafs (or whatever) stick out a little bit pushing the figure off the hex. (see Convolution by Black_Charos*)

Last edited by Sheep; August 16th, 2014 at 12:57 PM. Reason: *Convolution's a great map, I just had issues placing my Fen Hydra in between the two plants in the middle...
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  #48  
Old August 16th, 2014, 12:50 PM
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Re: The Design Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah (Design Phase)

EDIT: I've noticed there's 25 spaces in the Start Zones. I've made this change, and have also made the glyphs accessible in two turns for 5-move figures when going out to the left.

With that said, I made this:

Swamps of Dagobah - VS


It keeps the idea of an island in the middle but shrinks it by 6 hexes and also puts the glyphs on the Swamp, but not adjacent to the tree. I also switched two trees in the middle for bushes (like Karat kind of did) and maxed out the jungle bonus (except for the two trees on the sides).

Also, what does everyone think about this:

Quote:
SWAMP CREATURE
Destructible Object

LARGE ?

Life 2
Defense 1

DEPTH OF THE SWAMP (new name)
Swamp Creatures do not start the game on the battlefield. When a small or medium figure moves onto or ends its movement on a Swamp Water space, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a[n] X or higher, remove that figure, place it on this card, and place a Swamp Creature on that figure's previously occupied space. Up to a maximum of 2 figures may be on this card at once. You may only roll the 20-sided die for Depth of the Swamp once per turn for each figure. At the end of the round, place any figures on this card adjacent to the Swamp Creature. After placing the figures, each of those figures receives one wound, and remove the Swamp Creature from the battlefield and place it on this card. If a Swamp Creature would receive enough wounds to be destroyed, place all figures on this card adjacent to that Swamp Creature, and then destroy that Swamp Creature.

SWAMP AGILITY (new name)
If a Swamp Creature would receive at least one wound, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a[n] X or higher, ignore any wounds and move that Swamp Creature up to 4 spaces. When moving with Swamp Agility, a Swamp Creature does not take any leaving engagement attacks, may move through all figures, and must end its turn on a Swamp Water space.
Mini: Any of these

Special Rules: Start the game with 3 Swamp Creatures. Swamp Creatures are not controlled by any figure. When Swamp Creatures are attacked, the opponent of the attacking figure temporarily controls that Swamp Creature. After the attack, control of the Swamp Creature goes back to neutral.

Last edited by Sheep; August 16th, 2014 at 01:12 PM.
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