NM24 - Process

[UranusPChicago]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

Are we discussing cost at all in this process? I know we're not doing the playtesting for cost, which is what slows everything to a halt. Nobody mentioned anything about Hawkeye's cost, so I'm not sure if that means it was good or if nobody looked at it.

Is someone going to make a logo or something that we can place on "NM24'd" cards?

I believe the Point Value should absolutely be discussed if someone thinks it is out of whack. However, like you said, there is only going to be limited if any playtesting involved with this process. I think more than anything, we are looking for "playable" point values. We will leave the fine tuning of the points to the TNTs.

I was hoping one of the more creative types could come up with some kind of logo for both the card and the A-Z listing.

I am just getting a red X for the Juggernaut card. Is anyone else having problems seeing it?

EDIT: It appears that Photobucket was hacked. Not sure if that is where this particular card was hosted.

[Jonathan]

For me to "thumbs up", the points have to seem balanced. I can't approve Hi's Juggernaut at this time because I feel like I need to test him out some to see if the points are legit.

[GreyOwl]

The Juggernaut pic loads fine for me. It is on photobucket, but I can see it. Here's the URL in case that helps: http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...Juggernaut.jpg

My comments on Juggernaut:

Unstoppable Force
I think it would work better if he had to move at least 3 spaces instead of 2 to use this, because it would better simulate him running head-on into someone. But I won't keep my approval over this.

Mystic Helmet
I think the ability is fine, but that it should be worded differently. How about:
"Control of Juggernaut can never change players, regardless of any special ability or glyph. Order Markers may never be removed from Juggernaut's card, regardless of any special ability or glyph."

Indestructible
I would change "...would destroy..." to "...could destroy...".

His stats seem about right for the character, though the combination of 7 Life, 7 Defense, and Indestructible may be a bit much for his current cost. As he is, I would guess he should be in the 380-390 range, off the top of my head.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Here's the Juggernaut on this page. I can see it just fine.

[UranusPChicago]

I guess I won't be much help here at work. I still see a red X and even GreyOwl's link doesn't work for me. Sorry guys. I will be able to critique later this evening.

EDIT: Scratch that, suddenly GreyOwl's link is working for me. Critique to follow...

[UranusPChicago]

Juggernaut

Unstoppable Force - The verbage might also need to include what happens when walking on/over terrain specific tiles (water, snow, etc.). I also agree with GreyOwl that it should require 3 or more spaces. My logic is that it would be impossible to not walk in a straight line over 2 hexes.

Brute Force 2 - This might be a little too "rules lawyerish", but some might read the power to only be concerned with non-friendly adjacencies.

Mystic Helmet - I like GreyOwl's verbage better.

Indestructible - "Juggernaut never rolls for molten lava damage" seems tacked on. It should at the very least be another ability. What if another terrain type is introduced to Heroscape (quicksand, negative zone, whatever) that determines its damage via an attack die roll?

I am with Jonathan in that I will need a quick game or two this evening to better gauge his point value.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

Juggernaut

Unstoppable Force - The verbage might also need to include what happens when walking on/over terrain specific tiles (water, snow, etc.). I also agree with GreyOwl that it should require 3 or more spaces. My logic is that it would be impossible to not walk in a straight line over 2 hexes.

My logic is he's not supposed to be slowed down by those things, so as long as he can still move 3 spaces in a straight line he can use Unstoppable Force.

Yeah,I changed it to three.

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

Brute Force 2 - This might be a little too "rules lawyerish", but some might read the power to only be concerned with non-friendly adjacencies.

Not sure what you are saying here. It says any figure so only if 1 figure is adjacent can he add 2 dice.

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

Mystic Helmet - I like GreyOwl's verbage better.

Changed.

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

Indestructible - "Juggernaut never rolls for molten lava damage" seems tacked on. It should at the very least be another ability. What if another terrain type is introduced to Heroscape (quicksand, negative zone, whatever) that determines its damage via an attack die roll?

Not sure what I should do here then? I could see dropping the line altogether possibly. I guess even if he is not destroyed by Lava, maybe he sinks in it any therefore is out of play for the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

I am with Jonathan in that I will need a quick game or two this evening to better gauge his point value.

Yeah, it does get tricky to figure out points when you start dealing with such powerful figures. I just hope that he is appropriate when compared with the HUlk and Silver Surfer.

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by hi1hi1hi1hi1

Not sure what I should do here then? I could see dropping the line altogether possibly. I guess even if he is not destroyed by Lava, maybe he sinks in it any therefore is out of play for the rest of the game.

You could make it more generic to account for possible future terrains. Something like "Juggernaut may never be damaged or destroyed by any terrain he is on", or something to that effect. I don't see a problem with combining two different abilities like that under one, since they are related and due to the same power.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

UPDATED!!! F5 if you can't see the changes.



Is the only thing left the points?

[UranusPChicago]

Originally Posted by hi1hi1hi1hi1

Not sure what you are saying here. It says any figure so only if 1 figure is adjacent can he add 2 dice.

You know what you are saying, I know what you are saying, almost all people will know what you are saying. I am not even recommending that you change it, I am just saying that there are "those" out there who will bend, twist, omit, and add words to rules to better suit themselves.

After rethinking the Unstoppable Force power last night, I came up with a follow up question?
Does Juggernaut need to follow all terrain movement rules?

Originally Posted by hi1hi1hi1hi1

My logic is he's not supposed to be slowed down by those things, so as long as he can still move 3 spaces in a straight line he can use Unstoppable Force.

Can he step out of 0 level water during his Unstoppable Force move?
Can he continue moving across water?
Does he ignore heavy snow?


I think we have hit the time limit with this one, but I still am enjoying the critique. I guess it is up to you, hi1hi1hi1hi1, if you want to move on to another nomination or wrap this one up.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

I think we have hit the time limit with this one, but I still am enjoying the critique. I guess it is up to you, hi1hi1hi1hi1, if you want to move on to another nomination or wrap this one up.

I guess as per the rules of this thread my time is up. I'd really like to finish this review though. I forgot to pm Jonathan with my nomination of his Boom-Boom, but I suppose it would be up to him whether to allow this review to continue a little longer or just end it. I pmed him now. When the response comes in I'll post the next card.

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

You know what you are saying, I know what you are saying, almost all people will know what you are saying. I am not even recommending that you change it, I am just saying that there are "those" out there who will bend, twist, omit, and add words to rules to better suit themselves.

Oh, ok.

Originally Posted by UranusPChicago

After rethinking the Unstoppable Force power last night, I came up with a follow up question?
Does Juggernaut need to follow all terrain movement rules?

Can he step out of 0 level water during his Unstoppable Force move?
Can he continue moving across water?
Does he ignore heavy snow?

With the current wording he has to obey terrain rules. I thought about it both ways, but I came to the conclusion that Juggernaut can be slowed, but not stopped. Therefore terrain could slow his project slightly.


Is the only thing left the points?

[GreyOwl]

If he cost in the 370-390 range, I'm happy with everything else.