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  #301  
Old February 7th, 2020, 12:13 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

Alright, screw it, I just say we put it to a vote.

A)
Quote:
HUMAN SHIELD 12
Anytime Crossbones would receive one or more wounds from a normal attack, you may immediately choose an adjacent small or medium figure without the Super Strength special power that is not the attacking figure. Roll the 20-sided die, adding 5 to the roll for each of the following that is true:
• You control the chosen figure.
• The chosen figure is common.
If you roll 12 or higher, you may instead ignore one of those wounds, and instead place it on the chosen figure.
B)
Quote:
HUMAN SHIELD
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you may choose 1 Terrorist or Mercenary figure you control adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives any wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones.
C)
Quote:
TREACHEROUS TACTICS
Anytime Crossbones would receive one or more wounds, you may instead destroy any figure adjacent to Crossbones that you permanently control.
EDIT: D)
Quote:
HUMAN SHIELD
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you may roll the d20. If you roll 8? 12? or higher, choose 1 figure other than the attacking figure without Super Strength that is adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives one of the wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones, or all of them if it is a figure you control.
I think those are the 3 basic schools of thought right now. We can fiddle with the details like mays/musts after we've determined the tack.

A -
B -
C - MrNobody, Archie, Ronin, Bats
D - LP

I'd especially like to hear from the playtesters (@IAmBatman @Ronin @Arch-vile ) and of course, @japes .

After some deliberation, I'm personally going to lean towards C, Treacherous Tactics. I like the concept of using enemies in theory, but in practice I found it frustrating and unrealistic to actually use. TT is simple, has a really fitting name, and pushes him towards squad figures, which is a plus in my eyes. I also think it's a valid point that he should be perfectly willing to throw anybody under the bus, not just two specific classes.

Last edited by MrNobody; February 7th, 2020 at 01:23 PM.
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  #302  
Old February 7th, 2020, 12:22 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

I vote C. It makes sense to reuse a power in a case like this, and since it's the LD's preference my choice is easy.
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  #303  
Old February 7th, 2020, 12:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

I like C.
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  #304  
Old February 7th, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

For my clarification before voting: you said it was frustratingly difficult to use against enemy figures. Have you tried it without the non-adjacent attack restriction or only with that restriction?

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #305  
Old February 7th, 2020, 12:45 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

My Preference, unless it's pointed out what the specific issue is:

Quote:
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you may roll the d20. If you roll (whatever) or higher, choose 1 figure adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives any wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones.
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  #306  
Old February 7th, 2020, 12:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
My Preference, unless it's pointed out what the specific issue is:

Quote:
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you may roll the d20. If you roll (whatever) or higher, choose 1 figure adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives any wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones.
Human Shield shouldn't work on the attacking figure, thematically. After that, it's more or less option A with a few different knobs turned on or off.

I do like a slightly cleaner version of Option A like that, though. For me, the main appeal of Option C is its streamlined nature.

Like this, for instance, could make sense:

HUMAN SHIELD
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you may roll the d20. If you roll 8? 12? or higher, choose 1 figure other than the attacking figure that is adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives one of the wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones, or all of them if it is a figure you control.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #307  
Old February 7th, 2020, 12:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
My Preference, unless it's pointed out what the specific issue is:

Quote:
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you may roll the d20. If you roll (whatever) or higher, choose 1 figure adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives any wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones.
Human Shield shouldn't work on the attacking figure, thematically. After that, it's more or less option A with a few different knobs turned on or off.

I do like a slightly cleaner version of Option A like that, though. For me, the main appeal of Option C is its streamlined nature.

Like this, for instance, could make sense:

HUMAN SHIELD
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you may roll the d20. If you roll 8? 12? or higher, choose 1 figure other than the attacking figure that is adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives one of the wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones, or all of them if it is a figure you control.
Yep that's it! Sorry about missing the attacking figure wording.
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  #308  
Old February 7th, 2020, 01:06 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

The main reason I’m against something like the version Bats posted is that while choosing enemy figures is fun, I think choosing your own figures (especially squad figures) is where the real strategic meat of the power is. Because of that, I don’t think you should be limited by a D20 roll for that part. I think it was twice during my games that I purposely kept some squad figures back and planned around the power, but didn’t actually get to use it cause of the roll. That left a REALLY bad taste in my mouth, and it’s the reason that after the initial, we lowered Human Shield to a near 0% fail rate when using your own squad figures.

I guess I just feel like we’re holding back the part of the power that will actually come into play in an average game because the idea of using opponent’s figures is theoretically interesting.

That being said, I’ll add it to the poll. I do think it needs a SS restriction though, to fit with the theme.
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  #309  
Old February 7th, 2020, 01:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

If I was a terrorist using a human shield, I'd be grabbing innocent bystanders first and foremost over my own men. That's a piece of theme that made me excited about this design and I think it would be a huge shame to lose it.
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  #310  
Old February 7th, 2020, 01:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

I'll go C. If you're not into a D20 power with any swing, we shouldn't make it a D20 power. So let's just go simple and reliable, rather than trying to torture the theme of a Human Shield power to try to make it something it's not.

We can do a Human Shield power in a future LD where it fits what the LD wants better.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #311  
Old February 7th, 2020, 01:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
For my clarification before voting: you said it was frustratingly difficult to use against enemy figures. Have you tried it without the non-adjacent attack restriction or only with that restriction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
If I was a terrorist using a human shield, I'd be grabbing innocent bystanders first and foremost over my own men. That's a piece of theme that made me excited about this design and I think it would be a huge shame to lose it.
Commenting on both of these since I missed Bats' post earlier.

No, I have not tested it with the new non-restricted version, but I also don't think it'll make too much of a difference and here's why.

In basically all 4 of my games, the formula was the same. Crossbones would get to a good point and start sniping, but then eventually a strong enough fighter would stroll up and knock him out fairly quickly. The only real exception was him and Quill duking it out in Game 1. It's been a while, but I believe the only time he was engaged to more than 1 figure was up against 2 members of the Wrecking Crew, where he got his socks knocked off like one turn later.

There just isn't much incentive to engage him with more than 1 figure, because 1 figure with a semi-decent attack can destroy him pretty quickly. And the only thing that would make him more reliably survivable (sacrificing your own figures) is being tied to a swingy D20 roll so we can make room for the chance that maybe more than 1 figure will be engaged with him every once in a while.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Just from the data I've gotten from the games, being able to throw an opponent's figure under the bus isn't a thing that's going to happen most of the time, and it's hard to justify limiting the rest of the power because of it, no matter how thematic it is. If he's not actually doing it either way, doesn't seem like it's super important to go on the card. That's why I'd personally prefer option A over option D, cause it's more automatic on the "your figures" part.

That being said, I added what Bats posted to the poll. If you guys really feel strongly about it, don't feel like you need to vote C. I think (or at least hope!) I've explained where I stand well enough that people can decide if they disagree or not.
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  #312  
Old February 7th, 2020, 01:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Public Playtesting)

I like Bats last take on it. If it is somewhat limited in who you can grab, I think you could get away with it being automatic. Not sure why no one likes the Human restriction on Human shield, solves lots of problems with theme, outside of a few oddball humans like Iron Man.

HUMAN SHIELD
Anytime Crossbones rolls defense against an attack and would receive 1 or more wounds, you choose 1 human figure other than the attacking figure that is adjacent to Crossbones. The chosen figure receives one of the wounds from the attack instead of Crossbones, or all of them if it is a figure you control.
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