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  #85  
Old May 24th, 2019, 12:54 AM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

The Scions need to thematically match the Eldrazi Ruiner design, since they're both purple. It's looking like that means they'll be based around gravity or black holes, which still gives some freedom to make a mechanically standalone design.

The current glyph pool we're working with does have some interesting interplay with potential OM powers, though. Something along these lines:
Quote:
To the Void
After revealing Order Marker 1 on the SPACE SHRIMP and taking a turn with them, you may destroy one SPACE SHRIMP that you control to remove an Order Marker from an opponent's Army Card.
That's probably too powerful without some very poor stats to tie it down, but the general direction of trying to get the Glyph of Knowledge to figure out more about your opponent when you have the Scions (along with potentially reviving them to get more chances via Recall) could be fun to mess around with.
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  #86  
Old May 24th, 2019, 01:53 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

I might get slapped for this, but how about Bonding? It is such a "classic" but simple power that I think should be in a master set, as the only one we had was Nagrubs Lifebonding. One thing new is we have not seen straight up bonding in an Unique Squad, so I think giving Eldrazi Scions bonding with Eldrazi Ruiner would be great. We could make the species/personality/size/etc that we choose to bond on also apply to other already released figures, but should be fine with just one hero with one squad. We could do bonding for another squad, but just figured since we want to link these two units it might be the easiest opportunity. Obvoisly somehow the powers of each should also complement each other, such as GRAVITY CRUSH gets power for each adjacent figure but bonding allows squads can move adjacent.
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  #87  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:11 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

I'm not a fan of a bonding pair for this set. Since everything is unique, it feels a little off (most of the unique-to-unique bonding in classic was stuff like Movement Bonding or other synergies), but even more important than that is that I feel like each design should be able to stand on their own. Taking the Scions without the Ruiner would likely be impractical, and it would be very easy to make the combo so much better than the Ruiner alone that no one wants to take the biggest figure in the set without his buddies.

Outside of the four-man squad, this would also be the only way to get 4 attacks per turn in the set (one of which is currently shaping up to have a multiple-target Special Attack), and it could be tempting to add more options to "balance" this out for other players. The price could of course be prohibitively high, but then taking either unit on their own becomes less feasible, and there would be less room for making your own army around them.

Bonding is a very powerful and simple, but I'd much rather not see it here.
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  #88  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:13 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

I'm not against Bonding in theory (though I'd have to be convinced to use it). As you say @lefton4ya , it did show up on the Nagrubs. I would, however, only want them to bond with the Ruiner, partly because of thematic ties and partly because as a Unique Squad they'd have limited use for multiple bonding options anyway Another potential concern that @Astroking112 touched on is power level; Bonding is such a strong power that it may not jive with whatever else is in the set.

On a related note, I still do like the idea of the other Jace summoning the Illusions like Iskra/Rechets (because it was a shame we never got more powers like that). So I'm not against units in this set needing to be taken with each other to play well (Nagrubs, again, weren't particularly useful without TKN).


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  #89  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:49 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

I understand that yes this would be the only 4-attack possibility, but if the Space Shrimps were maybe 2 attack and maybe 2 or 3 defense (with Scale/Climb and a possible negligible 3rd power), they would not be over-powered at all as they would at-most get one turn of 4 attacks. The way I see it is imaging if Nagrubs were a unique squad and didn't have life bonding only normal bonding - they would only be worth 20 points. Just like any bonding squad you would only take them with the hero, but if you took the hero you wouldn't be required to take the squad - they are like an optional extra layer of icing.

I understand everyone's disdain for bonding as an overused/overpowered power, but that is why I think it is important to have them in a master set but in a way that is not overpowered yet thematic.
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  #90  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:54 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
I understand that yes this would be the only 4-attack possibility, but if the Space Shrimps were maybe 2 attack and maybe 2 or 3 defense (with Scale/Climb and a possible negligible 3rd power), they would not be over-powered at all as they would at-most get one turn of 4 attacks. The way I see it is imaging if Nagrubs were a unique squad and didn't have life bonding only normal bonding - they would only be worth 20 points. Just like any bonding squad you would only take them with the hero, but if you took the hero you wouldn't be required to take the squad - they are like an optional extra layer of icing.
That's part of my problem with bonding here. If they're so weak stats-wise, there's no reason to take them without the Ruiner and they'll probably be relatively cheap. If they're too cheap, there'll be no reason to take the Ruiner without them. It feels like designing them more as an extension of the Ruiner than as their own unit with their own potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
I understand everyone's disdain for bonding as an overused/overpowered power, but that is why I think it is important to have them in a master set but in a way that is not overpowered yet thematic.
Swarm of the Marro was the only Master Set we saw to include bonding, but that was helped by them being Common. I don't think that we need bonding in this set.
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  #91  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:56 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

I think for Unique-Unique bonding, I would need to see it with some kind of twist in order for it to work from a design perspective for me. Something like Life Bonding or Strategic Bonding (although perhaps with cost or downside instead of upside? But I like downside/cost mechanics too much so maybe don't listen to me) would feel more appropriate to me than standard bonding.

That said, I think the more obvious place for direct synergy between units would be between Jace and the Illusions, who I expect will almost certainly have some kind of movement/activation synergy. I suspect that the Illusions will not have much in the way of offensive power, though, so this might not be quite what you're looking for.
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  #92  
Old May 24th, 2019, 06:39 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

Yeah, the only sort of direct synergy I’d like to see is something between Jace/Archmages and the Illusions. We can do the scions without bonding.
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  #93  
Old May 24th, 2019, 11:37 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

I’m not against bonding here, but I would like it to be more interesting than standard bonding.

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  #94  
Old May 29th, 2019, 10:44 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

There aren't many opportunities for historical units in this set, so here's a loose spin on Sorin:

Quote:
Vlad III

Human
Unique Hero
Count
Cruel

4 Life
5 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
4 Defense
90-120 Points

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.
This is of course taking inspiration from Vlad the Impaler, with an emphasis on cruelty and terror. If we want to make these ties more apparent, we could go with Vlad the Impaler, Vlad Dracula, or just Dracula as the name, although the latter two would be better suited to a more vampiric design.

If we decide that his skin is too pale to be a human, then it would be easy enough to switch him over to undead and swap out Paralyzing Stare or Gore for the typical vampire Flying/Life Drain combo. I'm personally more fond of a historical interpretation since we've seen so many official vampires already, though. Including VC, we're at 4-5 vampires, and it would be nice to not design another unit around Flying/Life Drain.

I'm also partial to Suskra's Gore for him. It symbolizes the torture and cruelty that he was known for without fiddling with an aura of fear or other complex mechanics (the sheer terror would be fitting, but we've already talked about an aura in a lot of other places so it'd be nice to keep away from that). Paralyzing Stare is also a nasty combo with it, and we can adjust the roll as needed depending on how the points work out.
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  #95  
Old May 29th, 2019, 11:17 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

This looks like this would be a cool direction for Sorin. I also like the reuse of both powers (even if one is still unreleased lol).

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  #96  
Old May 30th, 2019, 07:18 PM
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Re: [AotV] Pre-Brainstorming Thread

Interesting take on Vlad. I could honestly even see him lower than that point range, too.


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