Project Pokemon Design Thread: VENUSAUR! - Page 140

Chardar · #**1669** August 30th, 2010, 05:35 PM

I think the original starters should be slightly higher costed and more powerful than the rest of the starters. No reason really, just a nod to the original series.

fiddlerjones · #**1670** August 30th, 2010, 09:06 PM

I'm fine with the current costing structure of the starters. 160-180 seems good for most stage 3s, with the starters at the high end of that. Legendaries and Mewtwo, as previously stated, would be even higher, possibly even pushing 300 with the latter.

White Knight · #**1671** August 30th, 2010, 09:47 PM

I'm OK with the current costing also.

Nilfheim and Zelrig are 185
Braxas and Charos are 210

180-200 seems about right for Charizard. Which means that Charmeleon should be about 100-140. (and Mewtwo close to 300)

mac122 · #**1672** August 31st, 2010, 01:30 AM

Playtesting will show if the points are correct or need an adjustment.

Yes to send Charmeleon to playtesting.

wulfhunter667 · #**1673** August 31st, 2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667

Fiddler hit the nail on the head and wins the cupie doll. Flamethower, or at the very least a variation of it, is hidden in the stats for Charmeleon. I don't think it's necessary to increase his life or decrease his attack. Read the playtests again. Even when he did get Rage bonuses, he was hard pressed to do more than half that in skulls. Need I remind you all that the dice are not your friends and would rather work against you than with you? I believe Charmeleon is fine as is and I think it's time to move on.
I propose Charmeleon be moved to Playtesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlord Alpha

No. Even ignoring the fact that I don't at all like how the powers are arranged, this thing is still way too powerful for 120 points. It would be a complete waste of time to send it to playtesting in its current condition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chardar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlord Alpha

But remember, we saw that the card didn't account for squads or commons? We had to send it back to design to figure out what to do, and that spawned the current discussion in the brainstorming thread.

That's very good to know. I was getting ready to start playtesting him.

Also I'm going to vote Yes to moving Charmeleon into playtesting. I don't see how he's that overpowered. Rage only affects adjacent figures, which I think balances it out quite nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiyu0707

NO to putting Charmeleon into playtesting. First of all, Wulf, your playtests were before you added Scary Face. He's worth more points since those playtests. Second of all, Scary Face isn't iconic at all to Charmeleon and I don't agree Rage is either. And if you'll check, he doesn't even learn Rage in Generation IV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimoose38

Hey guys, sorry its been so long since I posted here. I just moved into my college dorm this past week and it took awhile to get my internet hooked up here. I think I have settled into the pace here at this point, so I will be posting a lot more now.

As far as Charmeleon goes, I say NO to playtesting advancement. I think much more thematic abilities can be used for him (Fire Fang, Fire Spin, Metal Claw, etc.).

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Knight

Scary face is only a 13 or greater. And it won't make much difference to ranged attackers.

Charmeleon should be really good against melee heroes. But it only has one attack. 5 attack or 9 attack (with height) versus a Venoc Viper is still only a single kill. At 120 points, you'll need 9 turns to take out every single Viper.

I vote YES to move Charmeleon v2.0 to playtesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlerjones

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667

Charmander has the iconic Ember, Charizard has the iconic Flamethrower.

I've always seen Fire Blast as much more iconic for Charizard.

But I digress. I partially agree about passing the pokemon because you think it's balanced and not because you like or dislike the move selection. The design phase has many aspects, one of which is flavor. If you don't feel the pokemon is flavorful, don't vote it thorough to playtesting.

That said, do not confuse "flavorful" with "iconic." Charmeleon is a perfect example - while he doesn't really have "iconic" moves, his abilities are certainly flavorful.

Personally, I have a little informal checklist I use to tell whether or not to vote a pokemon through.
It is as follows:

1. Elegance: Are the pokemon's powers as simple and intuitive as possible while still maintaining the intended results? Do they work within the constraints of Heroscape's rules (or break the rules in an interesting, innovative, and elegant way)?

2. Flavor: Does the overall pokemon's design, especially its special abilities, convey the proper feeling through its function? In other words, when I play with the Pikachu figure, does it feel like a Pikachu should?

3. Synergy: Do all of the pokemon's stats and abilities work in conjunction to promote the function of that figure? Is design free of redundant abilities?

4. Balance: Does the pokemon's power level seem appropriate for its evolutionary stage and point cost (the latter is less strict, as this can be remedied in playtesting)?

I believe the current incarnation of Charmeleon passes on all of these counts, so I vote yes on moving it to playtesting, if it's eligible.

The current vote for Charmeleon. 4 for, 3 against. Considering the discussion of the last few days, I ask those of you who voted no to reread Fiddler's post above and reconsider your votes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightSwipe

I vote Yes to move Charmeleon into playtesting.

Let's just see how playtesting goes, then we can fix Charmeleon if needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122

Playtesting will show if the points are correct or need an adjustment.

Yes to send Charmeleon to playtesting.

Well, with all the votes in that we are apparently going to get, the final tally on Charmeleon is 6 for and 3 against. With 12 possible votes, three of which seem to be permanently MIA, that means we have a majority. Charmeleon passes to playtesting. That also means Mac is up with Kangaskhan.

mac122 · #**1674** August 31st, 2010, 08:58 AM

I had a draft of Kangaskhan ready back in May, but I need to revise it before posting. I'll have it up a little later today now.
KANGAS-KHAN!!!!

Quote:

Kangaskhan
Normal Type
#115
Pokemon
Uncommon Hero
Parent
Ferocious
Medium 6

Life: 4
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 6
Points: 120(?)

Weak: (Fighting)
No Effect: (Ghost)

Carry
Before moving Kangaskhan, choose an unengaged friendly, Small figure adjacent to her. After you move Kangaskhan, place the chosen figure adjacent to Kangaskhan.

Motherly Protection
All friendly, Small figures adjacent to Kangaskhan roll 2 additional defense dice.

Comet Punch Special Attack
(Normal) Range 1. Attack 2.
When attacking with Comet Punch Special Attack, and at least one skull is rolled, this Kangaskhan may continue to attack with Comet Punch Special Attack up to 5 times each turn. This Kangaskhan must attack the same figure with each attack.
----------------------------
I see Kangaskhan as a defender with a bit of punch. Carry and Motherly Protection will give your small Pokémon survivability and (a small) movement boost. Little guys in danger can “run home to momma” for a defense boost.

fiddlerjones · #**1675** August 31st, 2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122

I had a draft of Kangaskhan ready back in May, but I need to revise it before posting. I'll have it up a little later today.

Can't wait to see what you came up with. Similarly excited to find out how Charmeleon fares in playtesting.

NightSwipe · #**1676** August 31st, 2010, 12:04 PM

Nice Kangaskhan. I like the idea of Motherly Protection and Carry, I never would have thought of that.

Chardar · #**1677** August 31st, 2010, 12:07 PM

You may want to change it to "small carry" or something, just to distingiush it from normal carry, which also applies to medium figures.

I really like that we're starting to get units other than sharks. It's good to start seeing some cheerleaders to help round out the pokemon.

mac122 · #**1678** August 31st, 2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chardar

You may want to change it to "small carry" or something, just to distingiush it from normal carry, which also applies to medium figures.

I really like that we're starting to get units other than sharks. It's good to start seeing some cheerleaders to help round out the pokemon.

Good point. It should be distinguished. "Small Carry" or perhaps "Pouch"?

Chardar · #**1679** August 31st, 2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chardar

You may want to change it to "small carry" or something, just to distingiush it from normal carry, which also applies to medium figures.

I really like that we're starting to get units other than sharks. It's good to start seeing some cheerleaders to help round out the pokemon.

Good point. It should be distinguished. "Small Carry" or perhaps "Pouch"?

I like "Pouch", it seems much more natural than small carry. That was based off the reasoning for including a number in the name. So it's down to the age old question. Mechanics or theme?

fiddlerjones · #**1680** August 31st, 2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Comet Punch Special Attack
(Normal) Range 1. Attack 2.
When attacking with Comet Punch Special Attack, and at least one skull is rolled, this Kangaskhan may continue to attack with Comet Punch Special Attack up to 5 times each turn. This Kangaskhan must attack the same figure with each attack.

First of all, I like the design of this pokemon. It's good to see some support guys too. The wording of this, however, is misleading. It makes it seem like if you get a skull on the first roll, you can attack up to five times on the following rolls. I'm sure kaiyu can sort out the proper wording better than I can.

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