NO POSTING - Heroscape 2.0 News from Designers and Staff

[caps]

Originally Posted by caps

Anitar, Myth26, and co. are hard at work getting a transcription of the Tales of Valhalla podcast interview last night with Chris Nadeau/Encarmine put together. In the meantime I wanted to post a few tidbits that I thought were really interesting/revealing:

- There are only 6 full-time staff members on the Avalon Hill team.
- There is a HasLab team at Hasbro that is responsible for the website. They are entirely separate from Avalon Hill and have their own processes and patterns for putting together the pages (you can see a kind of standard grid template on most HasLab pages).
- The HasLab team is used to putting together campaign pages for toys for collectors. Collectors know how action figures work, so they don't need it explained to them. Ergo, explanation of the product is not a typical part of a HasLab page.
- Changes to HasLab pages are made by the HasLab team, not by Avalon Hill.

- In a similar vein, the Avalon Hill team does not have their own 3d printer. They use an in-house "print shop" which also produces prototypes for other departments. It took two weeks to build the Age of Annihilation prototype. That + the other "clients" for the print shop is why they have only one prototype right now. He did say they are slowly working on a second copy of the prototype as a side effect of closely reviewing and finalizing each sculpt.

[rudyvalentine]

Oops. Please delete!

[UtahScott]

Originally Posted by caps

Anitar, Myth26, and co. are hard at work getting a transcription of the Tales of Valhalla podcast interview last night with Chris Nadeau/Encarmine put together. In the meantime I wanted to post a few tidbits that I thought were really interesting/revealing:

Here's a "Table of Contents" of the podcast, if you will. I'd like to see some discussion of this over on the BGG page, as well as our info silo here.

3:40 -- Chris Nadeau introduction. Background to returning HeroScape, and Chris' professional & gaming background getting to Avalon Hill.
15:00 -- Avalon Hill Discord -- communicating real-time with the fanbase.
17:45 -- Philosophy of the HeroScape design team -- response to Oct. 14 demo playthrough with new figures/cards & figure powers.
31:00 -- What to show (and not to show) leading up to the Oct. 1 HasLab crowdfund. New faction concept art.
41:00 -- Avalon Hill information channels (Discord, Hasbro Pulse, etc.)
44:00 -- Gettysburg, Battle Masters, Space Crusade, HeroQuest--returning titles to market.
53:00 -- Chris's online handle (Encarmine)
57:20 -- Oct. 14 "bugs vs. bears" demo -- showing the new game is HeroScape in feel.

1:06:55 -- HasLab / HasbroPulse crowdfunding campaigns
1:14:30 -- Deep dive into the background lore. Organizing the backstory around the prophecy.
1:28:05 -- New lore: Revna. Volarek. Wellsprings.
1:39:30 -- What does flipping the wellspring switch mean? My Little Pony-Scape could be a thing.
1:50:20 -- Sgt. Drake as a template for consequence.

1:58:20 -- Why HeroScape now? Why Age of Annihilation?
2:07:15 -- Chat questions: The "Blueprint." Assigning factions. Tooling costs. "Old Man Drake." _Ice Pirates_.
2:21:15 -- Festering Honor Guard question. Plushies. Migol. The Map Compass symbol.
2:34:30 -- Sign-offs from staff.
2:45:15 -- Chris' final thoughts.

[Anitar]

@Myth26 is setting up a team for transcribing official audio content for this thread in general, in light of the interview in the latest Tales of Valhalla. I'd very much appreciate anyone able and willing to help doing so.

Also, unrelatedly, yes, I've got another official quote.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

If we are going to thread the needle effectively - having an independent, complete set for new players, but also complementing old units - we should not rely much (as I see it) on direct interaction. That's fun, and important, as part of the execution. But it's also important that there is some soft synergy, and also some ways in which the units just happened to fit neatly together without any kind of synergy.

Reliance on too much direct and indirect synergy might, I would think, leave the new player feel like the new set, with all of its many minis, was still incomplete. And I would not want that, for the new player. When you pull all of this glorious, beautiful plastic out of the refrigerator carton that Encarmine hand delivered on a cart to your house, you should not feel like you need xyz to stack up against what your neighbor has.

[Anitar]

Today is Haslab updates today.

New banner:


New and changed images at the top:

That picture with the katana that we've already seen is now in use as the front page image.

3D battlefield.


The exclusive figures, side by side.


Most of Army Cards, most of which are new. Note the name changes on Bonny, Dorim, and Cornelius, which are not reflected elsewhere on the page. Note the erroneous image on the Glide Strikers, and that Halushia's listed info seems like it was supposed to be for Haluchott instead. Note that Maladrix is listed as a "Skodyre" rather than "Skordyre"...


The layout has been revamped.

The bears-versus-bugs exhibition match, now named "The Basics of Battle", is present.

We've got a beta rulebook, minus the pictures and scenarios. Notable tidbits:

Valkyrie: The Valkyrie general who leads the army (Revna, Volarak, Jandar, Utgar, Ullar, Vydar, Aquilla, Valkrill or Einar).

Let's say you’re playing the two-player Quick Play 1 game scenario on the Plains of Menlinnia battlefield.

Some squad figures, like the Dreadnauts of New Tortuga, have more than one life. If one of these figures receives a wound, use the tiny wound markers to track how many wounds each figure has. [Show the underside of the base with the tiny wound marker attached to the base]

SCORING
In cases where scoring is necessary, each player or team scores points for each army card with figures still on the battlefield. Refer to the Points value found on the card.
• SQUADS
If part of a squad has been destroyed, divide the Points number by the number of figures in the squad to get the cost for each individual figure. For example: Three of your four Vorid Glide Strikers were destroyed. You have one left on the battlefield. The total Points for this squad is 50. 50 divided by 4 equals 12.5. You would score 12.5 for the Vorid Glide Striker that is still alive.
• HEROES
If a hero has no wound markers on its army card, score the full Points amount. If there are any wound markers on a hero’s army card, you will score less. Divide the Points number by the Life number to see how much each wound costs in points. These wound marker points will reduce the total points value. For Example: Halushia’s Points number is 125 and his Life is 5. 125 divided by 5 equals 25. Xenithrax has Four wound markers on its army card. Four times 25 is 100. Now, you subtract the value of the wound markers. 125 minus 100 equals 25. Halushia with four wound markers is worth 25 points.

Permanent Glyphs
The power of each permanent glyph is in effect for as long as a figure is standing on it.
Exception: The Glyph of Brandar is an artifact. It usually represents an object as directed by the
specific game scenario.

Glyph of Astrid (Attack +1)
For each figure you control, roll one extra attack die when attacking normally.
Glyph of Gerda (Defense +1)
For each figure you control, roll one extra defense die.
Glyph of Xenithrax Vines (Vines)
If a huge figure moves onto this glyph, this glyph is immediately removed from the battlefield and that figure may continue its movement. Figures standing on this glyph roll 1 fewer attack die and 2 fewer defense dice. When a figure on a Xenithrax Vines glyph moves off of the glyph, roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, that figure takes one wound. Remove this glyph from the battlefield after a figure moves off of it, or at the end of the round if a figure is standing on it.
Glyph of Brandar (Artifact)
The rules for this glyph vary, depending on the game scenario.
Glyph of Yadulkia (Disengage)
Your figures are never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Temporary Glyphs
The power of each temporary glyph takes effect only once. When one of your figures moves onto
any of these glyphs, follow its rules, then remove it from the game.


Glyph of Haukeland (Healing)
When one of your figures stops here, you may remove up to 3 wound markers from any of your
army cards.
Glyph of Quillivon (Extra Movement)
Choose any 3 of your figures. You may move each of the chosen figures up to 6 spaces.
Glyph of Fellaron (Glyph Removal)
Remove any other glyph from the battlefield.

Flying and Stealth Flying: Many army cards have Flying or Stealth Flying. For these two powers,
just the name is listed. Refer to the below for the special powers Flying and Stealth Flying.


FLYING
When counting spaces for a figure’s movement with Flying, ignore elevations. This figure may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When this figure starts to fly, if the figure is engaged it will take any leaving engagement attacks.


STEALTH FLYING
When counting spaces for a figure’s movement with Stealth Flying, ignore elevations. This figure may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. If this figure is engaged when it starts to fly, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

More than One Common Army Card: If you have more than one Common army card of the same squad or hero, you only need to put one card on the table. For example: You have three Common squads of the Knights of Weston. You do not need to bring three Knights of Weston army cards to the table. You can bring just one card.

The exclusive figures' descriptions are different.

Scavorith, Lord of Ruin
Surging into battle, Scavorith menaces its foes with up to three attacks in a single turn - but risks wounding itself!

Thyraxis Dragoon
With a maddening chitter that echoes through the battlefield the Thyraxis Dragoon can alter enemy activations and disrupt battle plans!

There's a lot more emphasis on the terrain and its modularity.

HeroScape features a unique battlefield creation system using modular hexagonal terrain pieces that allow for a battlefield only limited by the amount of terrain you have. These pieces feature terrain such as grass, rock, sand, water, ruins, trees, and other realistic types of landscape. Tiles of different sizes can be connected and stacked on top of each other to expand not only the base area of the war zone but its height as well. Best of all, the design of the battlefield will affect the game! Units can gain bonuses or penalties based on differences in terrain height, the types of terrain may influence unit movement, and much more. Creating a unique battlefield is an exciting part of HeroScape.

The factions have group photos. The individual photos have been changed so as to use the new borders.






The flavor text of the new kyrie, as a group:

In addition to the five factions, Age of Annihilation includes seven Kyrie, the winged natives of Valhalla and champions of their respective Valkyries. Some are good while some are evil, and they may join battle with factions of similar beliefs. Below are concept images for the included Kyrie, with rendered examples to come soon.

[Anitar]

I've also got unrelated quotes, because of course I do.

Originally Posted by Intergalactic Patrick

Not full cards yet, but we have shipped some out to some cool people to share soon.

Originally Posted by Avalon Bill

PRESENTING... The Annihilation Compendium! There's nothing new here yet, but this will be our repository for Army Cards.
https://hasbropulse.com/blogs/avalon...ion-compendium

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Ooh, look, some cards are up on the HasLab page. Pirates & Dryan are mine, as you folks already knew. I'm excited to see them out there. Our veteran readers will recall that the Vorids are dok's, and the Queen (and the other bugs) are Skyknight's.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

"Anitar has done an outstanding service to the community by gathering and organizing information to share in a compact, meaningful way. She's the best." ~ DS

[Anitar]

We've got a new... narration, actually. Full of lore, courtesy of the guy they hired to voice Thormun.

Transcript provided by myself proofreading the auto-captions, because they're surprisingly clear this time.

Originally Posted by Baldermort/Thormun

Welcome, gentle listener. I am Baldermort, your faithful servant. Now, Avalon Hill, creator of many many fine board games, is crowdfunding something truly special. But also, because, well, you know the rule and I think that this is cool, links to the crowdfunder are in the video description as always. But let's find out the "where", "why", and "what" of it all. Enjoy!

It has been too long. A classic returns, yet deeper and richer than ever before. Now come join me as we gain but a tiny taste of the lore and setting of Heroscape: Age of Annihilation.

[the trailer plays; we've seen it before]

Undead creatures and horrors of war that would cause me to wake up screaming in the night-- so realistic were these visions that I could not dismiss them as imaginative ramblings or fantasy. I instinctively knew I was seeing the inevitable future of Valhalla and its people-- my people-- but the first wellspring, years before, was a gift in those early days.

I came upon it, quiet and alone, in a densely wooded copse near the Tarn of Volsunga. I had heard the legends and studied the myths, hoping to be the one to find it. I needed to make a name for myself to earn the respect of the good people of Valhalla.

I'd been hiking for days and as I neared the wellspring, overcome with fatigue and thirst, I stood back, hesitating to approach its basin. I was parched, but I cautiously inspected the crystal clear water without touching it. Then, as though an unseen force had taken hold of me, I drank greedily. As soon as the water touched my lips, my nerves began to tingle. I felt an alien sensation deep in my being. Slowly my wings started to grow until they were doubled in size. Soon, my physical strength had increased to a frightening level. My energy, vigor, and the clarity of my mind were now sharper and more powerful than ever before. The wellspring's magic had seeped into me. I continued to drink alone from the wellspring for days while I recorded all of the remarkable changes to my mind and body that I was experiencing.

Soon, however, the story of the discovery of the first wellspring and its supernatural powers became known, reverberating among the tribes of Valhalla as if it had been carried mysteriously on the wind. The Archkyrie of those tribes then quickly came together to discuss the threat the wellspring posed to a planet constantly ignited in war.

But in those early days, I had no way of knowing that six other Archkyrie would find their own wellsprings, gain the same dangerous powers that had come to me, and use them for their personal gain. The Archkyrie decided that those who drank from the wellsprings would no longer be known as kyrie, but as Valkyrie; and our own Archkyrie Jandar revealed himself first to his fellow Archkyrie leaders, cautioning those of the great power he had gained to defend his people.

But it was Utgar who took the rest of the Archkyrie by surprise by issuing an ultimatum to his fellow leaders: Unite under his banner, or die. And in the end, many lost their lives rather than choose to align themselves with evil. As Utgar's conquest engulfed Valhalla, his slaughter of Archkyrie changed the course of life there forever. Minor feuds, territorial conflicts, and petty squabbles amongst the Archkyrie evaporated. Valhalla had never been a peaceful planet, but leaderless tribes now pledge their loyalties to the different Valkyrie, hoping for some vindication, or even just a say in their fate when everything settled.

My fellow Valkyrie now discovered another of the wellsprings' mystical powers: their ability to summon warriors from strange places unknown. The only possible solution was to study this phenomenon. Each Valkyrie convenes soldiers from different times and places in history, all most powerful combatants. And so the war evolved, replenishing armies from different worlds using the magic of the wellsprings.

As bleak and violent as life on Valhalla was, my visions of the future foretold something much worse. In addition to the grim never-ending war I found myself in the middle of, there were also more wellsprings hidden around the planet-- 15 wellsprings to be exact, each with a strange and magical artifact and each tied to a different planet. Unable to deal with the burden and responsibility of this knowledge, I stopped drinking from my Wellspring. I let the magic slowly drain away from me until the powers-- the super strength of mind and body, the ability to see into the future-- drifted away forever. The war continued without me. Utgar stomped across nearby nations with a massive army, laying waste to the land. Jandar met him on the battlefield. Soldiers died, but the Valkyrie remained, regrouped, and did it all over again.

I am a Valkyrie. And now the time has come for me to honor that commitment, join my colleagues, and fight not only for the future of Valhalla, but for life itself. Now that I have regained my birthright, now that I have left the sidelines, I look, I search using my Valkyrie powers, I throw back the veil and begin to see the forces involved, the legions and legends I must defeat. For in this battle, none but the most wary will survive and none but the most bold will thrive. Each will be my own equal empire and there can be no quarter, so I must know those who I will face from across the lands they come. Five are the main factions with which I must contend, each a trial and test near impossible to match, yet I must do this. I must face them all.

Mystical weavers of the raw magical energies of life and death, the Dryan Lifeborne Order has dwelled in the dark forests of Planet Arboreas for countless ages, attuning their powers with the spirits of Nature and the etheric beasts that also called these ancient and forbidden places of the wild home. Masters of the arcane, these spell-weaving Magi learned to harness the very life force contained in the anima of living creatures, even using the fallen and deceased to increase the power of their spells or calling upon the powers of the earthly elements to create destructive manifestations of raw carnage. Though few in Number, the Dryan Magi make up for this by enlisting the aid of the world's many creatures and beasts, bolstering the ranks of their armies with the unbridled fury of their animal kin and unleashing the Very definition of feral rage upon their enemies. They call themselves protectors of life, yet amongst them are so many dealers in death. Raakchott, Desecrator of the Dead. Marachott, Mind Whisperer. Halushia, Scion of the Wild. Titanic Xenithrax the Soulweaver, drawn to Valhalla, unstoppable in its power. So many burning lights, so many dangers and dealing with them. The Dryan will not fall easily nor swiftly.

The Nemesis War Brood. Evolving over countless millennia of almost constant military campaigns and conquest on the home planet of Arboreas, the Nemesis War Brood had perfected the arts of War within their draconian martial culture. Their insectoid appearance can be deceiving at first, leading many to believe them barbaric and crude, base things of rage and slaughter. And contrary to that belief, however, the Nemesis War Brood possesses a highly advanced intelligence and fights with iron discipline to uphold and maintain their society against their enemies. Their hives are kept hidden from all outsiders and it is believed those Brood members encountered on Valhalla are comprised entirely of a sort of warrior caste. Leveraging their organically bio-engineered weapons and abilities. Revna utilizes the Nemesis War Brood's unique military tactics on the battlefield to great effect, feinting army compositions, using centralized neural network communications to execute complex maneuvers, and even spawning new reinforcements as a battle unfolds, and tactics change to meet the moment. The Nemesis War Brood use Oathbound shock troops will cover the lands and, of course, Queen Maladrix the Conqueror, the harbinger of doom with her Festering Honor Guard, a canny warrior, a venomous enemy. She will strike like a scorpion if I give a one-inch opening, unleashing her brood of horrors on the land unfettered should I fail.

The Dawn Raider Syndicate. The mercenaries of the Syndicate call no Valkyrie their master, refusing to bend the knee to any of the warring factions on Valhalla. With motivations as varied as the composition of those species that called the Syndicate their own, the Dawn Raiders take to the battlefields of Valhalla for whichever side pays their high price for temporary loyalty. Often found in the shadows of the main advance, they fight for more than just the spoils, booty, or carnage, but because they enjoy the challenge of battle. The Dawn Raiders are led by a charismatic Council of captains who collectively function as the Syndicate's governing body in deciding the path of the Dawn Raiders, negotiate terms with the other factions on Valhalla, which contracts to honor, confirm new members into the group, et cetera. With such a diverse mix of characters and specialties within their ranks, there is always a willing crew available for the required task at hand, coming into each battle hard and making the impact felt, fighting like madmen. The Dawn Raider Syndicate-- Dorim the Bulkhead Brawler with his unquenchable chain axe, always leading from the front; Cornelius Breech the Derelict Prince and his legendary butcher's cleaver; the Knaves of the Silver Scimitar, brigands and scoundrels, all just as Revna always wanted. I must be as hard as rock and as sharp as a blade if I wish to defeat them all.

The Ironclad Collective. For eons unknown on their planet of Noxdorma, the Ironclad have been waging war using the cold logic of their data cogitators and the hard steel of their inorganic weapon systems, the limitations and mortality of their organic species reforged and forgotten as countless generations focused on perfecting their methods of destruction. Every outcome on the battlefield is pre-calculated, every possible strategy is processed before the first shots are fired. The Collective's military composition constantly adapts to battlefield conditions as they upgrade their cybernetics to counter new enemy tactics, sometimes even relinquishing individuality to upgrade themselves into combined monsters, war machines of searing intensity. Members of the Collective reflect their harsh philosophies of war in various death masks, creating metallic reflections of nightmares and generating a visual persona of fear and despair in the minds of their enemies. Every potential edge in combat is analyzed, even the psychological advantages gained through uncompromising terror tactics. The Ironclad Collective-- their Wraithriders watch from the skies, ready to strike at a flash; the inexhaustible legions crush all beneath their boot. But their Master, the Lich Lord, right hand of their Valkyrie: he is the one to watch as vile toxins infect his own men, enhance them, or slay them, but they annihilate his foes at the barest touch.

The Clockwork Combine. Once a peace-loving and pacifistic society of farmers and artists from the planet Noxdorma, the various creatures of the Clockwork Combine have been forced to learn to make war on a previously unimaginable scale or face their complete extinction at the hands of their enemies. In their desperation and with an utter determination to survive annihilation, the Combine's artificers, engineers, and scientists developed amazing technologies and fantastic flying machines of wonder to create havoc on the battlefields of their home planet and allow them the tactical flexibility to move their best troops to exactly the right place at the right moment. With the help of their advanced technology and limitless ingenuity, the Combine is now capable of lightning-quick redeployments, aggressive aerial insertions, and even equipment repairs in the heat of battle. I will not enjoy doing battle with these dreamers and shapers whose minds and craft have been twisted to fouler ends. The elite Glide Strikers and their hero Tuck Harrigan; valiant Imperator Kayne with his double-edged cannon; their Frostclaw Paladins are a sight to see. I do not wish to bring them low, but I must, for Valhalla can only know the sweet caress of peace when there are none left who will fight this accursed war.

If only there were others who would fight these forces with me. If only there were more Valkyrie to save my world, my home, my Valhalla.

Heroscape: Age of Annihilation. Customize epic battlefields, draft your army, and join the greatest battle of all time. Heroscape: Age of Annihilation. Become legendary.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I mean. I guess it's possible...

I told you all... we have ideas.

[TalesOfValhallaOfficial]

Originally Posted by UtahScott

Here's a "Table of Contents" of the podcast, if you will. I'd like to see some discussion of this over on the BGG page, as well as our info silo here.

3:40 -- Chris Nadeau introduction. Background to returning HeroScape, and Chris' professional & gaming background getting to Avalon Hill.
15:00 -- Avalon Hill Discord -- communicating real-time with the fanbase.
17:45 -- Philosophy of the HeroScape design team -- response to Oct. 14 demo playthrough with new figures/cards & figure powers.
31:00 -- What to show (and not to show) leading up to the Oct. 1 HasLab crowdfund. New faction concept art.
41:00 -- Avalon Hill information channels (Discord, Hasbro Pulse, etc.)
44:00 -- Gettysburg, Battle Masters, Space Crusade, HeroQuest--returning titles to market.
53:00 -- Chris's online handle (Encarmine)
57:20 -- Oct. 14 "bugs vs. bears" demo -- showing the new game is HeroScape in feel.

1:06:55 -- HasLab / HasbroPulse crowdfunding campaigns
1:14:30 -- Deep dive into the background lore. Organizing the backstory around the prophecy.
1:28:05 -- New lore: Revna. Volarek. Wellsprings.
1:39:30 -- What does flipping the wellspring switch mean? My Little Pony-Scape could be a thing.
1:50:20 -- Sgt. Drake as a template for consequence.

1:58:20 -- Why HeroScape now? Why Age of Annihilation?
2:07:15 -- Chat questions: The "Blueprint." Assigning factions. Tooling costs. "Old Man Drake." _Ice Pirates_.
2:21:15 -- Festering Honor Guard question. Plushies. Migol. The Map Compass symbol.
2:34:30 -- Sign-offs from staff.
2:45:15 -- Chris' final thoughts.

Wow this is great. Thanks for all the time and effort!

[Anitar]

There's an interview about the Haslab and, in particular, its controversial price point.

YouTube

Transcript provided by @Strack9:

Spoiler Alert!

Tabletop Bro: 8,000 units at $250 a pop; that's a steep ask. How do you plan on meeting that goal?

Patrick O'Rourke (Head of Marketing): All right, we'll have to talk about some of this at a high level just because of the nature of...

Tabletop Bro: Of course.

Patrick: ...of the, of what we're allowed to talk about. But, um, it's a very expensive game to make. And, and, it's even more so, it's a very expensive game to start making.

Chris Nadeau (Lead Design): Mhm.

Patrick: I think that's ultimately one of the reasons it didn't work the first time around, is because it was very difficult to recoup initial investment. And so, if we believe that there's a community here, and people who want to play this game, that's where we need, we need to be able to cover those costs to kick it off, because it's not gonna b... Look, I love HeroScape, but it's not, at least in the near term, not gonna be the biggest game in, in, Avalon Hill's or even, uh, Hasbro's portfolio. Right? So we've gotta... to bring this out we've gotta, we've got to be able to cover those very high startup costs. As far as a, as a plan is concerned, there's a lot in the works, and some of it I wish would have come out sooner, but there's a lot in the works and we're running as fast as we can on this side. There's videos being produced. We shot a video just a little bit ago. I don't know what I want to say about that but, there's stuff. Right? I hope it works. I'm... I'll tell you what, you... you mentioned it earlier, we're, we're up every night doing the best we can to move this thing through, and it's not done; we're not, we're not sitting down and hang out in the corner going like well I guess this thing's over". We've got a long time. At the time of this [interview] we've got 33 days. That's 33 days to work; to, to work our magic and, and be determined and drive as hard as we can.

Chris: Yeah, Patrick's task last night was to actually task out a bunch of, um, actionable deliverables that the design development team could support...

Patrick: They've got to be frustrated, heh heh.

Chris: ...The list that came in here this morning at 9:00 a.m. is 23 bullet points long, that I'm looking at right now, and, um... so it's all hands on. It's, you know, just attack, attack, breakdown these things, get this stuff out. Things like the fan poll, was just one bullet point. Right?

Patrick: Mhm.

Chris: So, just like the... we want... you know, the fans that wanted to see all the product laid out and I wanted to know what I got from a value perspective"; that's where that image came from, you know, yesterday. That's... We're just chipping away and getting that stuff out and doing all those things that I've got to, um, they gotta... to create some lift. And you know, Patrick's spot-on in terms of the insights here. It is a very expensive game to produce, and... and without giving any exact numbers, just the, just the tooling for the Haslab, um, is a massive chunk of that 2 million dollars that you're estimating there.

Patrick: Mhm.

Chris: And I'm not talking 20 or 30 percent of that. I'm talking it's a massive chunk...

Patrick: Mm hm

Chris: ...that, that's... those are, you know, hundred of molds to be able to do all of this. Um. So, these costs come with a fairly hefty price tag. Plus, all the R&D to generate all-new characters; all-new sculpts, you know; all-new Army Cards... like, that's a, that's a pretty hefty investment. And so, once you start chipping away at all of that and then you figure out the cost of producing these to get them to the backers, um, what, what number are you actually coming up with at the end of that...

Patrick: Mmhm.

Chris: ...might actually shock the people who think that something like this is a cash grab.

Patrick: Yeah, and the philosophy of Haslab is different than the philosophy of Kickstarter. So, there's that, that piece of it as well. Right? Like, if you look at a lot of Kickstarters, they claim that their funding goal is whatever their funding goal is, and then they blow that out of the water. But, you and I both know, Austin, that, like, as someone who backs Kickstarters, at least myself, it's like yeah, but I've seen these things hit goal and they cancel it anyway...

Chris: Mhm.

Patrick: ...because their real goal was something much higher...

Chris: Mhm.

Patrick: ...But for us, it's, you know, we, we have stretch goals, we'd love to go beyond it but that's the real, that's the real deal thing. Right? That's what we've got to hit. That's what we're able to get, get approved within the, within the company. And it, and it does logically make sense if I could break it, break it all down for you. You would see, um, and so it's like, that's what we're chasing. And to me it's almost more honest than setting an artificially low number that, yeah, maybe we would have blown away in 24 hours but we would have, you know, not been able to actually support the game in the way it needs to be supported; because we do have plans for it, if it works, if we can rally the people around it - when it works - um, then there's a lot we can do because we've, we've, we've paid the factory to get started. Like, that's the hardest part is, like, start making it, and that's super expensive and then, now you're making it so let's make some more stuff. Right? That's a lot easier to do; especially from a cost and resources standpoint. So, that's getting us over that first speedbump. Right?

Chris: Yeah, and what separates too is, you know... to Patrick, your point of, like, Kickstarters they, they come with a little bit of the unknown. Right?

Patrick: Yeah.

Chris: ...Um... Like, while people will say, "Well how come you didn't just make this a Kickstarter? How come you didn't, you know, go after that fan base?", you know. The Haslab name, um, comes with that assurance. Right? If, if this backs, you get it and it's Hasbro-backed, and you know that thing's showing up in the mail. You're not gonna get notice 2 months down the line that uh, "Hey, sorry I'm gonna move out the delivery of this thing another year." It's getting made and, uh, you know exactly who to call on customer service if it, you know, you're not getting your answers, and that, you know, that should mean something t, um, to the community.

Tabletop Bro: There's no tiered level of backing. That's been the one thing that, like, when people complain about that, I'm like, they kind of have a point. So, what was the, the reasoning, uh, behind having one backer level?

Patrick: Well, I'm tryin' to think of the, of a, tight answer to it that, that I can summarize the, the rationale. But, really it comes down to that's the best value we felt we could deliver. Because, you know, because of the way in which the financials break down, we can put a lot of value in the box once it... once it hit $250, we could... you, like... I don't think anybody, or I've seen very few people question... Hey this is a lot of stuff for $250! Like, there's a lot in this box. The, the problem is $250 is a lot of money to pay, and I understand that, and respect that completely. But, as far as a value to what you get perspective, $250 was really the sweet spot where we felt that we could get the best, the best deal to the consumer. Once you start getting lower than that we're... it just got a little more like I don't want anyone to feel like they're not getting enough.

Chris: Are they getting something they're going to prize? Does it feel like a treasure? Does it feel like I can actually bring my friends into this game system and be proud of that? And I... the, the finances to something like this is super super complex. So in a... you... to the point of how the financials kind of break down; even if you halved the price to $125, that's not half the products...

Patrick: Mhm.

Chris: ...it's like a third the products. Right? That's what happens as you scale...

Patrick: Mhm.

Chris: ...Right? So, as you start to create a really competitive price point, what you might not have, is a game. And you might feel like the starter set doesn't feel impressive to you. You're not... this isn't something when you, when you break it open a year from now, you're gonna be excited about.

Patrick: Mhm.

Chris: And so, it was, it's that ... it's a lot of that back and forth on our team of, like, scaling up and down that offering for, for weeks and months. And we're honestly, we, we still have those conversations of what is, what is the right comparison of a price point to a value. What are people gonna feel good about at the end of the day, when they have it. And, I, I, we, we, get that they're, that that kind of knocks a, a certain demographic, who might not have $250 in their checking account handy, to be able to participate. We, we understand, and you know, we've had a lot of discussions about that. We have a lot of plans about that, but you know, first and foremost, what we have to do is, we have to, we have to generate the money...

Patrick: Mhm.

Chris: ...to make this line a possibility. And, that's what the Haslab system is designed to do. And so, it is, it is a community funded, crowd-funded, relaunch of HeroScape, and that comes with some of these nuances of, yeah, it doesn't feel like the kind of thing I would find in a, in a Wal-Mart or a Toys-R-Us. And yeah...

Patrick: Yeah. It's not by design. Right? But again, those are... Also, if you think in terms of mass-produced stuff, 8,000 units is very few.

Tabletop Bro: Oh totally. 100 percent.

Patrick: So it's not even, So its, it's a ...

Chris: You pay, you pay a premium with the factory when the factory is telling you, Well if you're only going to run 8,000 units, you're gonna pay more per unit than if you were print, you were producing 200,000 units". And, and so all of this gets factored in. It's the, the finances is super complex to this kind of stuff. It's not as simple as a conversation on Discord or, um, you know, the varying perspectives and opinions of, you know, the community on Facebook. It's hard. It's, it's, it's...

Patrick: Complex.

Chris: ...it's a big deal.

[caps]

The fixed a few issues on the Haslab page update from yesterday. Most notably, we have corrected cards!

Spoiler Alert!

And new box art!

Spoiler Alert!

[Anitar]

Another short interview, this time about the backstory of the game's revival.

YouTube (Short URL)

Transcript provided, once more, by @Strack9.

Spoiler Alert!

Tabletop Bro: How did you bring Heroscape back in the first place?

Patrick O'Rourke (Head of Marketing): Should I go first?

Chris Nadeau (Lead Design): You should go first again.

Patrick: Yeah, but like, I feel like I answered it pretty well last time. Hopefully I can answer it pretty well this time. I think it really comes down to this. Um, uh. Much like HeroQuest which was the... I pretty much owe my career to, my career at on Avalon Hill as well as at Hasbro, to that project; was a big fan of HeroQuest when I was younger, as well as many other people in this organization. Our ability to bring that back kind of gave us a job and a team. And as that has grown and a team has been assigned to that, and we're able to do some great work on that, um, as a fan of games I went back and looked at other games I played a ton of, and I'm a big big fan of, and Heroscape was high on that list. Um, so you know, we started, uh, I would call it a, a propaganda, rallying, campaign throughout Hasbro's hallways about how great Heroscape is. We were playing it; talking, talking it up. And then, uh, Craig Van Ness, uh, joined the team. He was working on a project called Risk Shadow Forces (which is a great game; he did an amazing job on that; he's a great game designer). So that's how I got introduced to Craig Van Ness. And once, once Craig showed up, um, it was... felt very serendipitous that, uh, we were advocating for Heroscape we had the lead designer of Heroscape now on the team. Um, so it really put into overdrive this, uh, campaign, if you will, uh, to, to take that brand out of the “vault” and bring it into the next era.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, just from a kind of linear, linear history standpoint, um, Craig had... we were partnering with Craig as a outside game designer. He was, um, helping us with the game mechanics for Risk Shadow Forces. And it was hard not to have conversations with Craig where he didn't just gratuitously drop the name Heroscape into the conversation. So, um, it very... it kept it very top of mind. It um, it gave us an opportunity to kind of, um, evaluate Heroscape against the, the best practices and successes that we had on HeroQuest, and see if we could repeat that success. Um, and we also had a lot of, um, evangelists, champions in the larger community because Heroscape had been around um, relatively recently. So, some of our Executives had even... even take credit for their participation at some point, being the marketers or the game designers and whatnot, on um Heroscape back in its, its first edition. So, when we brought that up, I think we probably uh we probably got into the nostalgia play on our own executive team as well.

Tableto Bro: That's something the first recording didn't have, for you people at home. That's some new stuff right there.

Patrick: Ha ha. He remembered it this time.

Tabletop Bro: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, and you know we mentioned this before, uh, what sort of a timeframe are we talking from when, like, Patrick and Craig first kind of put the bug into the ear of bringing it back like, uh ... Chris you said, uh, in the First Recording, which is lost, um, that it took about 18 months prior to October 1st?

Patrick: Yeah,

Chris: Right, It's about an 18-month development cycle to produce a game of this complexity...

Tabletop Bro: Right.

Chris: ...from, kind of, initial conversations around feasibility; the, the financial, um, viability of the product. Like, all of that kind of starts about 18 months ahead of, um, of kind of quote-unquote “shelf set” kind of getting in the hands of the consumers. So if you kind of back your, your, your, calendar up a little bit you can see that we've kind of been living the, the Heroscape world on Avalon Hill for, um, for a little while now.

Patrick: Yeah. Well, and then even prior to that 18 months, um, it takes time to align resources, and you know, we've got a lot of projects we're working on here. Um, so I would say for the kind of lack of a better term “roadshow” was probably over two years ago that, you know, slides in a PowerPoint deck, pointing to some amazing fan collections, was getting passed around. And I was, you know, showing up to leadership meetings, um, presenting it as a viable, um, viable business plan that we could go after.

Chris: Yeah, and even, even before our development cycle truly kind of, yeah, kind of gets on the tracks and becomes a linear progression, um, the, the product designers tend to kind of alpha test their theories together.

Patrick: Yeah...

Chris: Right? So you can have the situations where for, for almost years in some cases, a game could be kind of incubating within the community. They could be trying all that out and it kind of keeps coming up in the conversations of line plans, um, to a point where it kind of matches up with, you know all the stars of finances, viability, right time, right demographic, you know; all of those things kind of start aligning, and it, it then starts to shift into that kind of linear process of development at that point,

Patrick: Yeah, I can't tell you how many variations of Heroscape I've had the privilege of playing. Some really fun. Some probably will never come out. But these are designers, you know, exploring, exploring the edges of what's possible, um, and that that has been a real joy in my life, as somebody who's, like, got this job; because I love the game. Heh heh.

Chris: They tend to cross-pollinate too. So, we've even had, we've even had, um, kind of, play tests where even Doug Hopkins, who's the proc designer on HeroQuest will take componentry such as the terrain from Heroscape and make viable HeroQuest products using Heroscape terrain and vice versa. So that kind of stuff happens in the incubator ... might not always make it to the fans, it might not always pass the all the gates and tests and everything else to kind of go along with play testing. But the theorycrafting is there.

Patrick: Here. Look. <shows phone> I just snapped this picture of them. This is 15 minutes ago...

Tabletop Bro: That's awesome!

Patrick: ...debating about certain things and how they can play, and learning from one another on how to apply it to their various disciplines

Tabletop Bro: That's sick. And that was... uh, I mean, you just flashed that first... like, that was Craig Van Ness and uh...

Patrick and Chris (simultaneously): Doug Hopkins.

Tabletop Bro: Uh yes... good old...

Chris: Yeah so that's...

Patrick: He's the designer of HeroQuest.

Chris: Yep, so that was HeroQuest and Heroscape basically warring over a, uh, potential game scenario that we may or may not be dropping to the fans in the near future.

Tabletop Bro: Oooh.

Patrick: They both use three two one dice. They, they kind of have a lot, uh, in common, you know, as far as the, the combat, uh, game mechanics go. So it leads to a lot of really interesting discussions about what's possible and what belongs in which game. I think that's, you know, um... We do want to make sure they're, they're unique and really cool experiences each in their own right. So it's, it's really fun. It's, it's probably the most enjoyable part of my job.

Chris: Yeah that's actually a good point to the, um, the roadshow comment you made earlier too, which is that part of this requires us also explaining why you're looking at two very different player bases two different groups of Gamers demographically, and why both HeroQuest and Heroscape makes sense within our portfolio. Right? How actually different they are from a mechanic standpoint and why they kind of scratch very different itches for players, um, is kind of part of that process of onboarding a new line.

Patrick: Yeah, and it's hard when they both start with “hero” yeah everyone gets confused.

Tabletop Bro: Yes, they do. I can confirm.

Chris: Yes, we have a jar in the office where if you misname one by using the other, you have to put a dollar in the jar.

Tabletop Bro: How uh how much money is in the jar?

Chris: Uh, enough for probably a pizza party.

Patrick: Yeah, probably.

Tabletop Bro: There we go.

And while I'm here...

Originally Posted by Encarmine

2 colors per card probably, and dice that match the attack and defense symbols…
And probably Onshu to make Skywhale happy
And whenever Intergalactic Patrick let’s me post this visual I made earlier this week…

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Dice that match the symbols. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to keep Marro skulls on the dice.

But themed dice in future sets could be super cool.
Like Penguin dice
Could be an easy thing for convention exclusives too “I went to GenCon and here are my Black-on-black Valkrill dice that I picked up from the AH booth.”

[Anitar]

From the Compendium, we now have full unobstructed views of the new Master sides-- stats included.





(Pretend this card says "Halushia" in the power text like it's supposed to)