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  #73  
Old May 27th, 2019, 08:59 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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The problem is that there are two distinct phases of movement as written; one where they are normally walking, and one where they briefly phase at least partially into another dimension. If we want to convey this style of movement specifically, where they are only solid at beginning and end, then I don't think that the longer walking phase (where they move just like any other figure) accomplishes that. A mechanic more akin to Phantom Walk is more fitting to that theme, either with or without the ability to move through obstacles as well.
Again, that's not what I suggested. They can move into the other dimension for a couple seconds at a time. Hence Blink 2 spaces, then normal move. If we're worried about castle walls, we could always make it same level. (I'm not; can they move vertical relative to our dimension while walking in the other? Sure, why not. My point was there's still movement happening, not just the disappear-here-reappear-there of teleportation.)
That's what is suggested by the current power set. If they're not intended to have two distinct types of movement, then that is not conveyed at all currently. I didn't say that they can't be "walking" in the other dimension that's presented by Blink, but it does not jive well with the current mechanics.

I don't care too much about how the aliens move when using "Blink;" again, I'm more concerned about thematically matching the playstyle of what we're aiming for. If we're trying to evoke horror with this design, I'm not seeing it yet.
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  #74  
Old May 27th, 2019, 09:43 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

It's not horror, exactly. When I brought up Xenomorphs, I was talking about the agility and stalking they're sort of known for - not the space/body horror.

I think that a Blink 2/Move 4 thing illustrates that very well. We could even make Blink happen before or after moving.
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  #75  
Old May 27th, 2019, 09:47 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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If they're not intended to have two distinct types of movement, then that is not conveyed at all currently.
They do have two "types" of movement as in one in our dimension one in theirs, but it's fluid, all part of the same continuous motion. Again, pick a different name if that's giving you trouble.

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If we're trying to evoke horror with this design, I'm not seeing it yet.
You can't pin them down, they can get in unexpected places, and you had better get the drop on them if you want to shoot them*, or else they'll come for you first. That fits to me.
*Updated Phased Out in the OP for clarity.

@AllYourPie are you suggesting Blink after their normal move instead of before? What does that accomplish for the design? (Not putting it down, curious.)

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  #76  
Old May 27th, 2019, 09:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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@AllYourPie are you suggesting Blink after their normal move instead of before? What does that accomplish for the design? (Not putting it down, curious.)
Ah, no, I simply misunderstood how the power works. Putting it at the beginning makes a lot more sense, although the "before or after" version has some merit as well.

I think I'd still prefer Stealth Dodge to Phased Out on this design, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. I think both powers could use some workshopping for their names. I'll see if I can come up with anything.
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  #77  
Old May 27th, 2019, 09:57 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

We could try it either way. Blinking then running in to maul you fits my vision of them better than running at you then Blinking at the last second, for what it's worth. "Before or after" might be a bit much for a Master Set.

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  #78  
Old May 27th, 2019, 10:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Idea proposed by Pumpkin King in the discord:

Phase Dodge
When a Leyline Phantom rolls defense dice against a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure, if you roll at least one shield, that Leyline Phantom takes no damage and may immediately use its Blink special power.
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  #79  
Old May 27th, 2019, 11:26 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Yes! Thank you AYP.
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  #80  
Old May 27th, 2019, 11:47 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
It's not horror, exactly. When I brought up Xenomorphs, I was talking about the agility and stalking they're sort of known for - not the space/body horror.

I think that a Blink 2/Move 4 thing illustrates that very well. We could even make Blink happen before or after moving.
Horror is perhaps a bit broad, but I don't think that space/body horror is what we're discussing, either. The image of these guys hunting down figures works better with them suddenly appearing than mostly moving normally. I don't see how Blink 2/Move 4 is tied thematically to them hunting down figures at all, for all of the reasons I previously mentioned.

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If they're not intended to have two distinct types of movement, then that is not conveyed at all currently.
They do have two "types" of movement as in one in our dimension one in theirs, but it's fluid, all part of the same continuous motion. Again, pick a different name if that's giving you trouble.
Blink of course doesn't make sense as a name for the power, but that's not the main problem here. Just like earlier, if we're trying to convey them physically running somewhere, a teleport won't get us there, even if it's them teleporting and then moving.

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Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
If we're trying to evoke horror with this design, I'm not seeing it yet.
You can't pin them down, they can get in unexpected places, and you had better get the drop on them if you want to shoot them*, or else they'll come for you first. That fits to me.
*Updated Phased Out in the OP for clarity.
Not being able to pin them down and them getting into unexpected places are common to most proposed designs here. Getting the drop on them to take a shot is from a different power altogether. The current movement mechanics specifically do not do anything for me in terms of horror (and what little they can be argued to do can be better represented with another movement style). It would be much more evocative to have them literally appearing right where you least expect, suddenly closing great distances to attack a victim directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
We could try it either way. Blinking then running in to maul you fits my vision of them better than running at you then Blinking at the last second, for what it's worth. "Before or after" might be a bit much for a Master Set.
If we do settle for this direction, then I don't see why "before or after" would be too much for a Master Set. The amount of complexity that it adds isn't very much, and the tactical benefit would probably make them easier to use for newer players by giving them more leeway to jump through a wall or the like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
Idea proposed by Pumpkin King in the discord:

Phase Dodge
When a Leyline Phantom rolls defense dice against a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure, if you roll at least one shield, that Leyline Phantom takes no damage and may immediately use its Blink special power.
I like this as a defensive power for them. It's dependent on a weaker "Blink," but it's a neat enough twist on Stealth Dodge without getting too complicated.
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  #81  
Old May 28th, 2019, 10:06 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I think I still prefer these guys without Hitzones at all. Phased Out is a good power, but doesn’t seem to fit the theme so far. It can look like those Knights of Weston are swinging at air, while the 4th Mass all look at each other completely puzzled.

I’ll have to think about what a better way to employ their movement is.

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  #82  
Old May 28th, 2019, 11:10 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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I think I still prefer these guys without Hitzones at all. Phased Out is a good power, but doesnít seem to fit the theme so far. It can look like those Knights of Weston are swinging at air, while the 4th Mass all look at each other completely puzzled.

Iíll have to think about what a better way to employ their movement is.
I don't like to come down as an absolute no on things generally, but no hitzones is pretty close to that for me. I know C3V did it for the Varja, but I'm still not sure I like it there. All it really amounts to is giving the unit a power without having the text on the card to explain it, which is a design choice I don't care for and I especially think doesn't belong in a Master Set.
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  #83  
Old May 28th, 2019, 11:16 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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I think I still prefer these guys without Hitzones at all. Phased Out is a good power, but doesnít seem to fit the theme so far. It can look like those Knights of Weston are swinging at air, while the 4th Mass all look at each other completely puzzled.

Iíll have to think about what a better way to employ their movement is.
I don't like to come down as an absolute no on things generally, but no hitzones is pretty close to that for me. I know C3V did it for the Varja, but I'm still not sure I like it there. All it really amounts to is giving the unit a power without having the text on the card to explain it, which is a design choice I don't care for and I especially think doesn't belong in a Master Set.
I can respect that, and Iím probably already outvoted on the matter anyway.

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  #84  
Old May 28th, 2019, 11:47 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I'd prefer no hitzones on the card and one less power over a conditional removal of hitzones, partially because the rulebook will explain that you need to be able to see red to attack from range anyway. It is another power that isn't spelled out, but we also saw the original designers play around with stuff like that with the Zombies of Morindan, and it'd be acceptable for one design to use a similar mechanic to introduce players to that mechanic.

That said, I don't feel particularly attached to the idea here (and I could see a more compelling use of that mechanic being proposed further down the road). I wouldn't be surprised if others felt differently about wanting a conditional removal of hitzones instead, either, even if it's more complicated. To be honest, I think that we'd probably be better off going with some kind of Thorian Speed altogether instead of messing with hitzones if we want to go with invisibility, as has been suggested earlier.
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